How do you define "Survival"

Vegemite


When you think about survival, what scenario do you envision?

For me 'Survival' is the general strategy of getting alive out of a exceptional situation using basic options - preferably without depending on other person(s) or any administration.
      

The sharpness of their toys separate men from boys!

We've already said that the simple life isn't so enviable but the "survival" movies have the appeal of a clean simple purpose that can be achieved or not based you yourself.  Fighting the zombies might suck but it's a known objective and method.  Red Dawn might not have been realistic but it showed people with simple straightforward methods and objectives.  No tax man to tell them they were fighting against the invading force wrong.

Exactly.  And there is an element of possibility in it.  Just as in the old days there really was a likelyhood of shipwreck.   Today that is highly unlikely, but many feel there is a real possibility that SOMETHING in the complicated engine that is our modern society,  might break down.  Forcing us to return to the basics of food clothing shelter and self protection.   And sometimes when modern life gets overwhelming--that return to basics doesn't look so bad.  Especialy when we can forget details like a toothache with no dentist.
Taking out  your own tooth with an ice skate might take the fun right out of life.

"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them."  Thomas Jefferson to George Washington. 1796

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered,
those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.
Thus the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." ~ Author Unknown

This is not to make light of the situation in Haiti.  Thousands have died, and more injured will die from lack of water and treatment.  I hope their suffering will end as quickly as possible.

From an AP article:

Broken infrastructure is hindering delivery of aid.
"People are almost fighting for water."
People are getting angry with U.N. vehicles trying to maintain calm instead of delivering aid.
Shops are being looted for provisions, but the supply will run out soon.
There is no police presence.

It seems like you need to be prepared for the first week, and hope aid comes.  If aid doesn't come, I guess that's when things really get ugly.

         Simple things are best.

         Current CS gear:
         True Flight Thrower, 18" and 12" Barong Machetes, Special Forces Shovel 

Very likely scenario for Californians.
I've got supplies for 1-2 months. Enough guns, ammo, knives for defense, but eventually if no help comes, I will have to travel, in uncertain roads.
Cities aren't the most ideal places for longterm survival.
I have 4x4 ground transportation, but don't have a safe haven to go to and won't know what the road condition will be like to get out of dodge.

That brings up something.  If you plan on bugging out eventually---or just think you might want that option--a couple jerry cans of gas on hand.   Of course they need to be rotated or stabilized else they will gel on you and really mess you up.  Corner gas station is closed and there you sit with a fine SUV and 1/8th tank of gas.

Where to go in that situation might just consist of looking for a place when the time comes   Since everything would be totally different.  And suppose you do have your Mtn cabin all stocked up and ready to move in---then you get there and find a group of squatters have occupied it whose only survival gear consisted of ARs and a ton of ammo.   And now all the stuff you thoughtfully provided for them.  Now you are in the same position as Wraith Blade---all packed up and no where to go.
You can call up incredible satellite maps of your area---Or any area--and put them in the 4WD and might just end up looking them over and looking for a good camp site.

"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them."  Thomas Jefferson to George Washington. 1796

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered,
those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.
Thus the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." ~ Author Unknown

I always have gas on hand for the lawn mower and motorcycle.  It's amazing how far a bike can go on a few gallons of gas.  Likewise it's a beat up piece of junk from the 80's.  Built solid and goes anywhere with no maintenance.  In the years I've had it I've left it out in the snow, rain etc. and only now am having to do anything by way of maintenance (radiator leak).
     The best laid plans fail.  Your cabin may be taken over, your escape route blocked, etc.  Be prepared but also be flexible.

     As for Haiti, ouch.  Prayers, support, donations, and blood.  All things we can do to really make a difference there.  Even if we can't up and leave our jobs we can help.

fox


We've already said that the simple life isn't so enviable but the "survival" movies have the appeal of a clean simple purpose that can be achieved or not based you yourself.  Fighting the zombies might suck but it's a known objective and method.  Red Dawn might not have been realistic but it showed people with simple straightforward methods and objectives.  No tax man to tell them they were fighting against the invading force wrong.

Fox has nicely illuminated a major issue of survival - identify your objective and adapt your methodology. At this time, we have a front row seat to an objective of urban survival in Haiti. Keep in mind that due to the grinding poverty of the region, many have already honed their skills at urban survival and the successful survivors will have adapted themselves to a new, even more harsh reality.

Survival takes many forms and in my experience, urban survival can be one of the most difficult situations of all.

Thanks Al.
     I think one of the things that keeps these discussions going and us constantly renovating our kits is that we are trying to prepare for anything that we could realistically find ourselves in.  That's a lot of ground to cover.

If I can survive in a zombie apocalypse as long as this thread has, I'll be better off then most.

In regards to Haiti, imagine what it'd be like if the survivors had no hope of aid coming?  The machete gangs and looting/rioting would be turned up to the 'nth' degree.  These are people that are already used to living in a mostly failed state.  If that level of devastation were to happen in most parts of North America, conditions would likely be as bad.

"There is nothing in the universe cold steel won`t cut."

    -Conan of Cimmeria in "Beyond the Black River" by R.E. Howard


The conservative's prayer- "DEAR LORD, THIS YEAR YOU TOOK MY FAVORITE ACTOR, PATRICK SWAYZIE. YOU TOOK MY FAVORITE ACTRESS, FARAH FAWCETT. YOU TOOK MY FAVORITE SINGER, MICHAEL JACKSON. I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW, MY FAVORITE PRESIDENT IS BARACK OBAMA. AMEN"

YouTube's Nutnfancy (yep, the guy that is disliked by Pocket Bushmen ) has made 3 movies about preparing for urban disasters. IMHO this clips are worth watching.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVkntkChnnM
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOC901gcLng
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeNVsc3vvi4
 

The sharpness of their toys separate men from boys!

Knifezilla, thanks for the links.  Nutnfancy tends to be longwinded (he has some valid points, tho), so I'll wait till I have the time and patience to sit through them.

         Simple things are best.

         Current CS gear:
         True Flight Thrower, 18" and 12" Barong Machetes, Special Forces Shovel 

Knifezilla the first vid is 44 minutes long and thoughI am interested, he is just not very good at converying information in a timely manner. Glad you enjoyed it,I turned it off after 4 minutes, as he still had not gotten to anything of intrest to me.

To many hobbies, not enough time.

I define survival as not being dead when all is said and done at the end of the day. 

   I have been in the US Army for a long time! I have been to Sniper Schooll, Ranger School, Long Range Surveillance Leadership Course and I was in Ranger Regiment...and a Long Range Surveillance for 8 years. I even went to 2 different survival schools...I grew up in Washington and Montana...So I know a lil bit about the Woods. I am not trying to toot my own horn just trying to help out.
   SURVIVAL = S-Size Up the Situation(Surrounding, Physical Condidtion, Equipment) U-Use All Your Senses, Undue Haste Makes Wastes R- Remember Where You Are (Always practice where North is where ever you go/ remember when you planned the trip or last location/ Or even the last picture of a Map...Use process of Ellimination)  V-Vanquish Fear and Panic (Most people get lost because they over stress or doubt/second guess them selves)  I- Improvise (Everyone has a built in engineer in them, take your time and use your head, (You have nothing but time)) V- Value Living (Dah...don't give up)  A - Act Like the Natives (watch the bad guys, animals, bugs, taste food in small parts...wait an hour before you wolf it down...And always study the plants before you travel into an area...Plants can Kill you if you dont know to Identify them!  L- Live by your Wits, (Stay sharp...dont panic...your life depends on it) But for Now, Learn Basic Skills
   Break things down into Basic needs first...then wants: Needs: Shelter, Water, Food, Heat/Cold, Cover and Concealment.   Always carry if you can: Knife! one you can at least hack with or use a log on the back to assist in chopping.  Safety Lighter(so it doesn't bleed off fluid)(If you can buy water proof matches...dah...buy a lighter! if it gets wet...just roll it on your leg a couple of times or leave in the sun...the flint will dry itself out. 550 (Parachute cord) at least 25ft. Its small and easy to carry. It has 6 smaller strings with-in itself...can use for fishing line or alternate tie down. Carry a Small Soap Box Fishing Kit: 25ft of line and hooks, Very Small Repella (Looks like a small minnow) a Colorado Spinner(Shinner with a couple red beads and a hook) dig up some worms...and you'll catch trout like crazy...Fly Fisherman will make fun of you...but you'll come home with more fish LOL/  Carry a bottle of Iodine Tablets for water if you have to drink on the run. Extra if can also get a Swiss Army Knife if you can/ Magnifying Glass for fire back up plus has many other tools and saw. And always have a Compass of some kind...even one of the small ones on your watch will work...but remember to take it off the watch and away from metal when you use it!   
   These are just the basics and basic items...but they can keep you alive!  I hope that helps out a little...I don't want to write a novel. But get yourself a couple of survival books and read them...always good knowledge!

From - SSG Bo
  I will never leave a fallen comrade - Energeticall will I meet the enemies of my country - I shall defeat them on the field of battle for I am better trained and will fight with all my might...Parts of the "Ranger Creed"

Rangerbo
     good solid advice.

In all seriousness though, I almost always carry contact solution and case, pocket knife, lighter, 2 emergency blankets, a poncho, warm coat and hat, and lately a koga SD for self defense in a briefcase, along with some iodine tablets. I've found that 'survival' kits can be really helpful even in non-emergencies.

"He loved Big Brother"-George Orwell, 1984 "Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man, may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old fashioned; if so, I am contented to be so."-Patrick Henry "Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting" ---Man on Fire "I cry your Pardon, gunslinger." Stephen King, The Wastelands

used my emergency kit for lighting birthday candles and first aid and many things other than emergencies.  The biggest "emergency" i think I've ever used it for was when my car broke down in cold weather.  I keep a complete cold weather kit in my car durring the winter.

When you think about survival, what scenario do you envision? 
I envision both scenarios, basically practicing skills for the first for enjoyment and as preparation for either scenario.
 
A. I get lost in the woods for a while, have to stay alive until I get rescued.
I've always thought that this would be an exciting thing to have happen to myself. Like some of the previous posters, I had long been of the mindset that it is important to keep a significant inventory of survival tools and materials on oneself at all times. Anymore - I really prefer to plan only to have a knife and firestarter for any given scenario. I love NutnFancy's videos, but I just don't feel like carrying any weight with me anymore - I'd much rather be quick, quiet, and fast. I can make fire and shelter no matter what. Food is more difficult, but I'm fairly confident that I could forage and catch enough to keep me alive in most environments. I'm still trying to learn more about edible plants, and I'm always looking for new wilderness survival skills. Tom Brown's books (The Tracker / The Way of the Scout) have been of great inspiration to me in these endeavours.

B. Some kind of cataclysm happens, I'm trying to survive while the human race dies off.
This is going to happen one day; several hundred million people are going to disappear, and then all Hell will break loose. Other large-scale disasters are likely to occur first. Unlike most previous posters, I would find these scenarios to be exciting challenges in which I could put my skills to the test. Some people in this forum discussed heading to the woods or mountains, and others mentioned remaining at home in the suburbs. Most people said they would not want to be in the city. I would personally want to be living on a boat (if possible - a racing catamaran or trimaran like in Waterworld... which I have yet to acquire). Unlike the forests - which would quickly be picked clean of game, the ocean has an extreme abundance of life. I would spearfish, set crab/lobster traps, dive for shellfish, eat kelp, and perhaps even hunt waterfowl when the opportunity arises. This may sound unrealistic to some people, but I am confident that I could comfortably pull it off right now - if only I had the boat. If my wife ever changes her mind - we'll definitely be buying a boat and living on it ASAP.

If you haven't seen this before, you ought to check it out - it provides some interesting insights regarding post-societal-collapse survival in America:
Comparison between collapse of USSR and future collapse of USA

"Verily, thou art not paid for thy methods, but for thy results, by which meaneth thou shalt kill thine enemy by any means available before he killeth you."  ~Richard Marcinko

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Mostly A. but I have been in situations after disasters that would qualify for B.

Living in the lap of pre-apocolyptic luxury while the less well armed and supplied mire in the murk murdering each other over scraps.