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 CPM 3V or San Mai III?

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ironwatson

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CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Sunday, January 28, 2018 5:57 PM ( #1 )
Just wondering if anyone has had experience with the steels. I have been looking at getting a Tai Pan for a long time now and noticed amazon had the CPM 3V for $190. I do not own any of the CPM 3V knives but have loved all the San Mai III knives that I own. Wondering if I should wait for the re-release of the Tai Pan or if I should just pull the trigger on the deal. Thanks for the help
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Mike Sastre

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Monday, January 29, 2018 7:23 AM ( #2 )
That would be your choice. The Tai Pan is considered by many to be a classic design in a dagger, so you should be very happy with either, depending if you want high carbon or stainless steel. The new San Mai has a core steel of VG-10 and the San Mai III versions had a core steel of VG-1. My personal preference would be the San Mai III version (if you can find one). If price is a consideration, the new San Mai Tai Pan may be the least expensive of the three. The CPM 3V is an excellent version if you prefer carbon steel, and in addition has the DLC coating for protection.
ironwatson

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Monday, January 29, 2018 11:19 AM ( #3 )
Thanks for the response, outside of the old Carbon V Kukris and Trailmasters, I have to admit I do prefer the San Mai III, I think I will wait since I also prefer the look. Appreciate the help, might pick up a cheaper CPM 3V knife, just for the collection.
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Mike Sastre

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Tuesday, January 30, 2018 7:43 AM ( #4 )
The CPM-3V is more expensive than the new San Mai versions. There is a difference between the new San Mai and the previous San Mai III. CS has dropped the III from the San Mai designation now because they changed the core steel in the lamination process from VG-1 to VG-10 and are producing the knives in Taiwan. Only the San Mai Trail Masters are still produced in Japan with the VG-1 corei
<message edited by Mike Sastre on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 7:44 AM>
GrReaper

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Tuesday, January 30, 2018 12:31 PM ( #5 )
What is the difference b/w VG1 and VG10 steel?
Neuron

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:11 PM ( #6 )
Must be a mistake, the knife center says made in Japan($212 to preorder).
jlauffer

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:14 PM ( #7 )

Not sure the actual difference, but Fallkniven uses VG-10 for the core of their laminated blades, and I have heard rumors of chipping, but no idea if there is any truth to it.

Not sure why they would drop the III from the name.  When they changed from AUS8A core to VG-1 core they just added VG-1 to the name...would have thought they would call this VG-10 San Mai III.
<message edited by jlauffer on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:19 PM>
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Mike Sastre

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Tuesday, January 30, 2018 2:12 PM ( #8 )
I don't care what Knife Center says, the new San Mai knives are produced in Taiwan; trust me on this. The only San Mai knife still produced in Japan for Cold Steel is the Trail Master and even that is not listed as San Mai III, though it has the VG-1 core.
<message edited by Mike Sastre on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 2:19 PM>
GrReaper

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Tuesday, January 30, 2018 5:25 PM ( #9 )
There aren't that many sites that list country of origin info. Of those that do, some aren't that accurate. I think knifecenter is one of those that don't tend to be accurate. That info is frequently fumbled whenever a particular knife model's production is changed from one country to another. A lot of them continue to list the former country of origin for the new model. So you have to do a lot of digging to make sure. I've found bladehq to be one of the more accurate sites for country of origin info. So besides researching the manufacturer's websites, I go to bladehq a lot for that kind of info.

I checked out the difference b/w VG1 and VG10 on zknives steel list.  They have  similar chemical compositions but VG10 seems to have more molybdenum and Cobalt, in place of the Nickel in VG1. Additionally, it says VG1 has decent edge holding and good stain resistance and depending on the heat treat, is reasonably good in larger knives. VG1 is a bit tougher than VG10, according to zknives.

So I too would go with the SMIII over the new San Mai. As far as the OP question, between the SMIII and the CPM3V, I'd go with the latter if prices are similar, unless you definitely want stainless. That's because I figure the 3V is tougher than SMIII, but that's just a guess. I don't know of any sources that have objectively tested the toughness of those two steels.
ironwatson

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Tuesday, January 30, 2018 5:58 PM ( #10 )
Thanks GrReaper, really good points to consider.
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Pilus XIV

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Tuesday, January 30, 2018 7:38 PM ( #11 )
VG-1 is fantastic knife steel. Once you get it sharp . . . it is SHARP and will stay that way for a while. VG-10 = I like it. I believe Spyderco and/or Benchmade used to use it a lot. I have never done a side-by-side comparison between the two, but my VG-1s get SUPER sharp pretty quickly. I have heard that VG-10 is more durable/rugged, but can't confirm. I would, personally, if I had the $ right now (and I don't :( ) take the 3V model for its carbon content and the DLC coating. IMHO it gives the performance of Carbon with the low maintenance factor of Stainless (via the DLC which is, again IMHO, the greatest knife coating ever invented).
If people wish for peace, they should cease the pin-pricks that precede cannon-shots. - Napoleon Bonaparte
Loki1

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Wednesday, January 31, 2018 7:24 AM ( #12 )
I myself love the CPM3V it's a little harder to sharpen the CV but preforms just as well and seems to hold an edge just a little longer then CV.  And yes I favor carbon steel. LOL
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
Rowan McDirk

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Wednesday, January 31, 2018 6:34 PM ( #13 )
If you want a collection knife, get the VG1 SMIII,.i
If you want a 'user' get the 3V.
If you want the lamination looks without the collection value, get the SM.
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Mike Sastre

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Thursday, February 01, 2018 8:21 AM ( #14 )
Well said, Rowan.
KenHash

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Thursday, February 01, 2018 4:05 PM ( #15 )

jlauffer


Not sure the actual difference, but Fallkniven uses VG-10 for the core of their laminated blades, and I have heard rumors of chipping, but no idea if there is any truth to it.

 

I have had CS VG1 core and Fallkniven VG10 core laminates chip. In all cases it occurred only with the out of the box edge. My personal belief is that the edge gets weakened during the HT process and after the first sharpening id doesn't chip again. Seems to be a characteristic of the laminates, or the lamination process rather than VG1 or VG10 per se. A number of FK owners agree with my findings and theory.




Neuron

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Thursday, February 01, 2018 7:12 PM ( #16 )

Rowan McDirk


If you want a collection knife, get the VG1 SMIII,.i
If you want a 'user' get the 3V.
If you want the lamination looks without the collection value, get the SM.
 


For me the new SM's will be users(especially for that price), I prefer my guns and knives made in stainless with a few exceptions. Have used a Magnum Tanto IX(and others) happily for many years before the prices went crazy so I am pretty sure I will like the VG-10 models. Beauty and service, can't beat that(tired of the black knives, have all I wanted long ago).
Keeping the Emperor Collection for now though.

Pilus XIV

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Friday, February 02, 2018 4:35 PM ( #17 )
Yes the Emperor Collection is the creme de la creme--kudos to those who could afford it back then or can afford it now.   Not I, said the fly :( ....
If people wish for peace, they should cease the pin-pricks that precede cannon-shots. - Napoleon Bonaparte
Neuron

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Re:CPM 3V or San Mai III? - Saturday, February 03, 2018 9:52 AM ( #18 )

Pilus XIV


Yes the Emperor Collection is the creme de la creme--kudos to those who could afford it back then or can afford it now.   Not I, said the fly :( ....
 


Luckily I got it in trade otherwise it would not be mine.


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