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wave man

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why no flippers? - Wednesday, April 19, 2017 1:13 AM ( #1 )
I have recently gotten into flipper folding knives and have fallen in love with these easy-to-deploy folding knives and was wondering why Cold Steel doesn't make a decent ball bearing pivot dedicated flipper? I realize that the Ti-Lite can act as a flipper but it doesn't compare to any of my Real Steel or Ruike (I have been focusing on buying from these two companies for folders) flippers for 'flipping action'. Flippers deploy far better (IMHO) than any thumb stud or 'hole in the blade' system, and in many cases deploy as fast, if not faster than many assisted openers (which are a banned import in Australia).
<message edited by wave man on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 1:15 AM>


  "At close quarters Cold Steel has a decisive edge"  Lynn Thompson
  "The difference between Citizen(free men) and Civilian(slave) is firearm ownership"  Wave man
  Cold Steel Knives I own.. 
Trail Master san maiIII, Master Hunter san maiIII, SRK aus-8, OSI aus-8, LTC kukri, Bushman, 12" bowie machete, Outdoorsman lite,  Pendleton hunter VG-1, Pendleton lite hunter, Pendleton mini hunter, Kobun, Scimitar Spike, Double Agent1, Super Edge, Roach Belly, Canadian Belt knife, 3x Kudu, 2xPocket shark, Ti-Lite 4", Trench hawk, Trail hawk, 2 Handed Katana Machete, Smatchet, Thai Machete 


MountainPeek

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Re:why no flippers? - Wednesday, April 19, 2017 7:45 AM ( #2 )
I think the primary issue is interface with the Tri-Ad lock. It would require some interesting engineering for the flipper to pass next to/through the lockbar in order for the lock to work.

Of course, CS could jump into the world of frame/liner lock knives, but that market is already cornered to a certain degree. 



(However, Demko's new Scorpion Lock opens up a whole new world of possibilities...)

"The nation that will insist on drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards."
~Sir William Francis Butler


SDG

Neuron

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Re:why no flippers? - Wednesday, April 19, 2017 9:36 AM ( #3 )
Love my TiLites, especially the aluminum handled 6". I just had to use it as club on a dog attacking me, luckily I did not have to deploy the blade and use it.The 4" Titanium Model is my usual EDC when not going for a walk.For my use anyway the TiLites are ideal. I also own 15-20 other Cold Steel Knives so I am covered for any eventuality.Good Luck with your quest.
wave man

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Re:why no flippers? - Wednesday, April 19, 2017 3:50 PM ( #4 )
MountainPeek


I think the primary issue is interface with the Tri-Ad lock. It would require some interesting engineering for the flipper to pass next to/through the lockbar in order for the lock to work.

Of course, CS could jump into the world of frame/liner lock knives, but that market is already cornered to a certain degree. 



(However, Demko's new Scorpion Lock opens up a whole new world of possibilities...)
 


after posting I thought about that, and upon thinking about it this is probably the reason (as in incompatibility with the Tri-ad lock)




  "At close quarters Cold Steel has a decisive edge"  Lynn Thompson
  "The difference between Citizen(free men) and Civilian(slave) is firearm ownership"  Wave man
  Cold Steel Knives I own.. 
Trail Master san maiIII, Master Hunter san maiIII, SRK aus-8, OSI aus-8, LTC kukri, Bushman, 12" bowie machete, Outdoorsman lite,  Pendleton hunter VG-1, Pendleton lite hunter, Pendleton mini hunter, Kobun, Scimitar Spike, Double Agent1, Super Edge, Roach Belly, Canadian Belt knife, 3x Kudu, 2xPocket shark, Ti-Lite 4", Trench hawk, Trail hawk, 2 Handed Katana Machete, Smatchet, Thai Machete 


Rowan McDirk

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Re:why no flippers? - Friday, April 21, 2017 10:56 AM ( #5 )
The ball bearing pivot can get dirty very quick and stops working well. Teflon washers don't have that problem.
Fortuna Favet Menti Paratae

Take time to sharpen your steel, for he who whets his steel whets his courage
wave man

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Re:why no flippers? - Saturday, April 22, 2017 3:00 AM ( #6 )
agreed, though I have seen custom makers use a fully encased bearing system that eliminate this possibility, though the use of such a system obviously increases end price.


  "At close quarters Cold Steel has a decisive edge"  Lynn Thompson
  "The difference between Citizen(free men) and Civilian(slave) is firearm ownership"  Wave man
  Cold Steel Knives I own.. 
Trail Master san maiIII, Master Hunter san maiIII, SRK aus-8, OSI aus-8, LTC kukri, Bushman, 12" bowie machete, Outdoorsman lite,  Pendleton hunter VG-1, Pendleton lite hunter, Pendleton mini hunter, Kobun, Scimitar Spike, Double Agent1, Super Edge, Roach Belly, Canadian Belt knife, 3x Kudu, 2xPocket shark, Ti-Lite 4", Trench hawk, Trail hawk, 2 Handed Katana Machete, Smatchet, Thai Machete 


fox

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Re:why no flippers? - Saturday, April 22, 2017 6:57 PM ( #7 )
I don't know. I understand the appeal of flipper but they aren't my thing. I would like to see an option to add a wave feature to some of the thumb stud models.
"The difference is the woods is the only place I can see a clear path".                                                                   Malcolm Reynalds
wave man

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Re:why no flippers? - Saturday, April 22, 2017 10:35 PM ( #8 )
the wave function is IMO a very cool feature but from a practicality standpoint  they suck. I have found them to be destructive to your pants and can be uncomfortable to wear as they tend to pock you in the leg.


  "At close quarters Cold Steel has a decisive edge"  Lynn Thompson
  "The difference between Citizen(free men) and Civilian(slave) is firearm ownership"  Wave man
  Cold Steel Knives I own.. 
Trail Master san maiIII, Master Hunter san maiIII, SRK aus-8, OSI aus-8, LTC kukri, Bushman, 12" bowie machete, Outdoorsman lite,  Pendleton hunter VG-1, Pendleton lite hunter, Pendleton mini hunter, Kobun, Scimitar Spike, Double Agent1, Super Edge, Roach Belly, Canadian Belt knife, 3x Kudu, 2xPocket shark, Ti-Lite 4", Trench hawk, Trail hawk, 2 Handed Katana Machete, Smatchet, Thai Machete 


fox

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Re:why no flippers? - Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:35 PM ( #9 )
Interesting I don't actually own any CS wave knives so I never thought of discomfort for carry. I'll have to see if I can get my hands on one for a while to see how they ride for me.
"The difference is the woods is the only place I can see a clear path".                                                                   Malcolm Reynalds
wave man

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Re:why no flippers? - Monday, April 24, 2017 12:13 AM ( #10 )
I stopped EDC'ing my Ti-Lite as they did exactly what I described above, I have no such problems with my current EDC (RSK Megalodon E-801). Like I said, the concept is very cool, just not practical. I also had the Ti-Lite try to deploy (via the wave function catching on pocket contents) prematurally which wasn't ideal.
<message edited by wave man on Monday, April 24, 2017 12:15 AM>


  "At close quarters Cold Steel has a decisive edge"  Lynn Thompson
  "The difference between Citizen(free men) and Civilian(slave) is firearm ownership"  Wave man
  Cold Steel Knives I own.. 
Trail Master san maiIII, Master Hunter san maiIII, SRK aus-8, OSI aus-8, LTC kukri, Bushman, 12" bowie machete, Outdoorsman lite,  Pendleton hunter VG-1, Pendleton lite hunter, Pendleton mini hunter, Kobun, Scimitar Spike, Double Agent1, Super Edge, Roach Belly, Canadian Belt knife, 3x Kudu, 2xPocket shark, Ti-Lite 4", Trench hawk, Trail hawk, 2 Handed Katana Machete, Smatchet, Thai Machete 


from down under

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Re:why no flippers? - Tuesday, April 25, 2017 4:58 AM ( #11 )
I like the idea of a flipper but I don't think it's ever going to happen. I really like the wave feature on the talwar. TALWAR best edc IMO. Shame they discontinued it.
Pilus XIV

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Re:why no flippers? - Sunday, April 30, 2017 9:01 AM ( #12 )
My Swift II is all the "flipper" I need. A friend from a previous job was all "into" flippers, esp. the current fad of oversized ball-bearing pivot joints which are neither practical to hold nor pleasant to carry (IMHO). And the models he had were tipping the scales >$250 for a 3" blade. I'll stick with Swift II that, post a recent blade touch-up with a Fine stone, cuts through nylon cord as if it were butter.
<message edited by Pilus XIV on Sunday, April 30, 2017 9:03 AM>
If people wish for peace, they should cease the pin-pricks that precede cannon-shots. - Napoleon Bonaparte
wave man

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Re:why no flippers? - Tuesday, May 02, 2017 1:11 AM ( #13 )
Pilus XIV


My Swift II is all the "flipper" I need. A friend from a previous job was all "into" flippers, esp. the current fad of oversized ball-bearing pivot joints which are neither practical to hold nor pleasant to carry (IMHO). And the models he had were tipping the scales >$250 for a 3" blade. I'll stick with Swift II that, post a recent blade touch-up with a Fine stone, cuts through nylon cord as if it were butter.
 


assisted openers are an illegal import into Australia and we need a weapons licence [yes you heard that right] (and they have to comply with safe storage requirements similar to any firearms). To be honest I would put any of my Real Steel or Ruike flippers up against any assisted opener and be confident they would be as easy or easier to deploy (and they fire just as quick). I have to opportunity to test this and they easily keep up with a BM mini Barrage or standard Barrage assisted opener. I can also attest to the fact that my current EDC (RSK Megalodon E801) carries better than my Ti-Lite and as good or better than any pocket knife I have ever owned.


As far as cost, all my current flippers cost AU$100 or less (my E801 with its 4" 14c28N blade cost me AU$70), and the only one approaching the AU$250 mark is my recently purchased RSK Megalodon Titan (titanium frame lock/M390 blade) and from all accounts the Megalodon Titan (I haven't received it yet, still waiting for it to turn up) with its needle bearing pivot is silky smooth and comparable to high end knives twice its price.




  "At close quarters Cold Steel has a decisive edge"  Lynn Thompson
  "The difference between Citizen(free men) and Civilian(slave) is firearm ownership"  Wave man
  Cold Steel Knives I own.. 
Trail Master san maiIII, Master Hunter san maiIII, SRK aus-8, OSI aus-8, LTC kukri, Bushman, 12" bowie machete, Outdoorsman lite,  Pendleton hunter VG-1, Pendleton lite hunter, Pendleton mini hunter, Kobun, Scimitar Spike, Double Agent1, Super Edge, Roach Belly, Canadian Belt knife, 3x Kudu, 2xPocket shark, Ti-Lite 4", Trench hawk, Trail hawk, 2 Handed Katana Machete, Smatchet, Thai Machete 


Neuron

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Re:why no flippers? - Tuesday, May 02, 2017 10:38 AM ( #14 )
I don't see a valid comparison between the RSK Magdalon and the TiLite. The TiLite is a legal switchblade meant for use as a switchblade would be without the automatic part. I consider my TiLites as tactical knives and carry mine with that thought in mind. I carry all different styles depending on the situation I might run into, I don't believe in a universal EDC that will cover all eventualities I might encounter.It is not unusual for me to carry two knives at once. I sometimes carry a 9" Magnum Tanto in San Mai for my EDC, as long as it is not covered but carried openly at the waist it is legal.
wave man

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Re:why no flippers? - Tuesday, May 02, 2017 2:44 PM ( #15 )
That's all well and good mate, but here in Australia, where I live, we cannot carry any type of knife for SD.

As far as the validity of the comparison between the RSK Megalodon and CS Ti-Lite, I was only relating my personal experience and think it was in fact fair. My Ti-Lite destroyed several of my pockets and constantly poked me in the leg (all due to the wave tabs which had aggressive jimping) and was, to be frank a terrible knife to EDC, whereas my RSK Megalodon is an excellent EDC knife with none of those issues. I will not lower myself to trying to compare the two knives as to which would be better for SD purposes as I have not done any cutting tests or 'field testing' comparing the two knives, though one would think with the 4" drop point blade the Megalodon would serve adequately in any situation one would put a folding knife to.


  "At close quarters Cold Steel has a decisive edge"  Lynn Thompson
  "The difference between Citizen(free men) and Civilian(slave) is firearm ownership"  Wave man
  Cold Steel Knives I own.. 
Trail Master san maiIII, Master Hunter san maiIII, SRK aus-8, OSI aus-8, LTC kukri, Bushman, 12" bowie machete, Outdoorsman lite,  Pendleton hunter VG-1, Pendleton lite hunter, Pendleton mini hunter, Kobun, Scimitar Spike, Double Agent1, Super Edge, Roach Belly, Canadian Belt knife, 3x Kudu, 2xPocket shark, Ti-Lite 4", Trench hawk, Trail hawk, 2 Handed Katana Machete, Smatchet, Thai Machete 


Neuron

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Re:why no flippers? - Wednesday, May 03, 2017 10:23 AM ( #16 )
You are correct, different circumstances dictate different choices and if those are limited.....you gotta do the best you can. My preferred EDC is a Colt 1911 Government Model in .45 ACP of course LOL.
Pilus XIV

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Re:why no flippers? - Saturday, May 06, 2017 9:56 AM ( #17 )
Wave Man, I feel for you. I used to work for an Australian company and none of my coworkers could believe how "great" we have it in the US in terms of weapons laws. I had no idea that you'd need a license to carry an assisted opener. Well, as my British friends say, "needs must," so I guess if I were in Oz I'd probably have to opt for a flipper. Do you have any pictures you can post so we can see what you carry? Thanks!
<message edited by Pilus XIV on Saturday, May 06, 2017 9:58 AM>
If people wish for peace, they should cease the pin-pricks that precede cannon-shots. - Napoleon Bonaparte
wave man

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Re:why no flippers? - Sunday, May 07, 2017 12:58 AM ( #18 )

I hope the mods don't feel as though I am breaking the rules.

as far as 'carry', that's not allowed, apart from in Queensland (only, where I live) where we are allowed to carry a SAK or a poorly defined 'pen knife' (err on the side of a small [under 3"] slipjoint folder with no lock, no pocket clip and no one handed opening facility) and you might get away with a multitool (what I EDC everywhere), except if you have a 'genuine reason', say for work, or you are camping etc (there is an approved activity list, see below). All other states have a 'no knife carriage policy' AFAIK. 

I carry everything in the bottom pic except the knife, but as soon as I get to private property I put it in my pocket.

my EDC (as a stay at home dad who rarely goes out I have one of these plus the Leatherman in my pocket most of the time) rotation top-to-bottom RSK E-771 Sea Eagle carbon fiber/14c28n, Leatherman Wingman, RSK E-801 Megalodon G-10/14c28n, RSK T101 Thor G-10/14c28n


and current EDC with my RSK E801 Megalodon (currently my favorite RSK)



Qld The Law
https://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/weaponsLicensing/fees/faqs/lawFaqs.htm


Can I take my pocket knife to school?
No. Section 51 of the Weapons Act 1990 stipulates that “A person must not physically possess a knife in a public place or a school, unless the person has a reasonable excuse.”  It is not a reasonable excuse to physically possess a knife in a public place or a school for self-defence purposes.
Can I carry a knife for work purposes?
It is a reasonable excuse to physically possess a knife to perform a lawful activity, duty or employment; to participate in a lawful entertainment, recreation or sport, for exhibiting the knife or for use for a lawful purpose.  Examples as quoted in Section 51 of the Weapons Act 1990 are:
  • A person may carry a knife on his or her belt for performing work in primary production
  • A scout may carry a knife on his or her belt as part of the scout uniform
  • A person may carry a knife as an accessory while playing in a pipe band
  • A fisher may carry a knife for use while fishing
  • A person who collects knives may exhibit them at a fete or another public gathering
  • A person may use a knife to prepare or cut food at a restaurant in a public place or when having a picnic in a park; or
  • A person may carry a pen knife or swiss army knife for use for its normal utility purpose.






  •   "At close quarters Cold Steel has a decisive edge"  Lynn Thompson
      "The difference between Citizen(free men) and Civilian(slave) is firearm ownership"  Wave man
      Cold Steel Knives I own.. 
    Trail Master san maiIII, Master Hunter san maiIII, SRK aus-8, OSI aus-8, LTC kukri, Bushman, 12" bowie machete, Outdoorsman lite,  Pendleton hunter VG-1, Pendleton lite hunter, Pendleton mini hunter, Kobun, Scimitar Spike, Double Agent1, Super Edge, Roach Belly, Canadian Belt knife, 3x Kudu, 2xPocket shark, Ti-Lite 4", Trench hawk, Trail hawk, 2 Handed Katana Machete, Smatchet, Thai Machete 


    wave man

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    Re:why no flippers? - Sunday, May 07, 2017 1:02 AM ( #19 )
    I should add I have recently been thinking I will add a tactical pen (basically unrestricted as far as carry is concerned) to my going out EDC

    As far as the licence for an assisted opener, that's just for ownership, I would not carry one because if you get caught carrying it the coppers would most likely treat you as if it were a handgun and you would do a lag in jail.
    <message edited by wave man on Sunday, May 07, 2017 1:12 AM>


      "At close quarters Cold Steel has a decisive edge"  Lynn Thompson
      "The difference between Citizen(free men) and Civilian(slave) is firearm ownership"  Wave man
      Cold Steel Knives I own.. 
    Trail Master san maiIII, Master Hunter san maiIII, SRK aus-8, OSI aus-8, LTC kukri, Bushman, 12" bowie machete, Outdoorsman lite,  Pendleton hunter VG-1, Pendleton lite hunter, Pendleton mini hunter, Kobun, Scimitar Spike, Double Agent1, Super Edge, Roach Belly, Canadian Belt knife, 3x Kudu, 2xPocket shark, Ti-Lite 4", Trench hawk, Trail hawk, 2 Handed Katana Machete, Smatchet, Thai Machete 


    Neuron

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    Re:why no flippers? - Sunday, May 07, 2017 10:30 AM ( #20 )
    Interesting! Nice to get information from someone in the trenches so to speak. I think tactical pens are underrated, they can be quite wicked while looking so innocent. Thanks for taking the time to educate us Seppo's LOL.
    wave man

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    Re:why no flippers? - Monday, May 08, 2017 2:47 AM ( #21 )
    not a problem mate, Australia has descended into being a nanny state, with too many bleeding hearts in seats of power trying to save us from ourselves.

    Tactical pens, I agree, underrated and about the only viable option for us Aussies at the moment, though SD really isn't an option in Australia we have a 'duty to retreat' 
    I have found I can get a pretty decent tactical pen from China for around $AU4 posted, about what you pay for a decent Bic type pen here.

    Recently our government made changes to the National Firearms Agreement (NFA) which regulates our firearms and with some of the changes making it appear as though we are no longer legally allowed to USE a firearm in defence of our family or ourselves. Before we were not allowed to purchase a gun specifically for defence, but it was always understood that if our lives were threatened, & we had a gun to hand, we were allowed to use it if we had to. Now it clearly states that personal protection is NOT a genuine reason for USING a firearm! This flows onto other items as well, including knives AFAIK.


      "At close quarters Cold Steel has a decisive edge"  Lynn Thompson
      "The difference between Citizen(free men) and Civilian(slave) is firearm ownership"  Wave man
      Cold Steel Knives I own.. 
    Trail Master san maiIII, Master Hunter san maiIII, SRK aus-8, OSI aus-8, LTC kukri, Bushman, 12" bowie machete, Outdoorsman lite,  Pendleton hunter VG-1, Pendleton lite hunter, Pendleton mini hunter, Kobun, Scimitar Spike, Double Agent1, Super Edge, Roach Belly, Canadian Belt knife, 3x Kudu, 2xPocket shark, Ti-Lite 4", Trench hawk, Trail hawk, 2 Handed Katana Machete, Smatchet, Thai Machete 


    StevieB

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    Re:why no flippers? - Wednesday, May 10, 2017 3:24 AM ( #22 )
    wave man


    I should add I have recently been thinking I will add a tactical pen (basically unrestricted as far as carry is concerned) to my going out EDC


     


     No, it's not "unrestricted".



    http://www.police.vic.g...nt.asp?Document_ID=25574




    Dangerous Articles

    Dangerous articles are any item which is:

    carried with the intention of being used as a weapon; or
    adapted or modified so as to be capable of being used as a weapon.

    Any item can be considered a dangerous article if it meets the above definition. This may include any everyday items including tools, household items or sports equipment.

    A person must not possess or carry dangerous articles in a public place without lawful excuse.



     A "tactical pen" is both "designed" as a weapon and "carried with the intent" of being a weapon. An ordinary biro is one thing - a pen that is built as a pocket-stick is clearly "designed" to be a weapon. What is your "lawful excuse" for carrying it?
     You might try to claim "it's just a pen" - but that won't work. A "tactical pen" is clearly different from a disposable biro - and cops will always interpret things in the worst possible light. So how do you explain that you are carrying a stick-with-a-pen-built-in rather than just an ordinary BIC?


     This is why "Keychain" pocketsticks will also get you in trouble. A stick is a weapon - hanging your keys off it doesn't change (or even disguise) that. This is why I don't carry ANYTHING that might be construed as a weapon. I've trained in LaCanne but I don't carry a walking stick because I have no LAWFUL excuse to carry one - I don't have a limp or medical condition. I do sometimes carry an umbrella - but only when the weather justifies it. Torches with "tactical" points on them are also out - designed as a weapon. Sure, it might be acceptable to have a torch in your pocket but why do you need a metal torch with pointy bits when a plastic one will do the same job of illuminating things?




     






    from down under

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    Re:why no flippers? - Wednesday, May 10, 2017 4:37 AM ( #23 )
    StevieB, WTF. Since you been hear Iv'e never heard you talk about cold steel knives just your umbrella and what can't be used to defend yourself.
    StevieB

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    Re:why no flippers? - Wednesday, May 10, 2017 11:19 AM ( #24 )
    from down under


    StevieB, WTF. Since you been hear Iv'e never heard you talk about cold steel knives just your umbrella and what can't be used to defend yourself.



     I don't know jack about knives and I certainly can't carry one, so I can't contribute to those discussions. Self-defence is a subject that interests me - but as I've pointed out it's illegal to carry anything  in Oz. You posted that a "tactical pen" would be legal to carry - I'm pointing out that it's not.
    wave man

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    Re:why no flippers? - Wednesday, May 10, 2017 9:34 PM ( #25 )
    AFAIK a 'tactical pen' is allowed, my old man has recently carried a tactical pen onto a plane (in his top shirt pocket) without restriction, the security staff even asked him about it and he said 'it's a metal pen' and they were OK with it and allowed him to have it in his pocket in the cabin. There is no mention in the legislation (I know I've checked) about tactical pens (I can only talk about Qld, that's where I live) either about ownership or carriage, and I doubt the average copper would even know what a 'tactical pen' is. They are just a metal pen. I agree the naming of the 'tactical pen' is controversial for us Aussies, and if I am ever caught with a 'tactical pen' by a copper I will simply say it is a 'metal pen' (ensuring I don't call it a tactical pen) and I am pretty sure there won't be an issue.

    I understand what you are saying though, for example we can't carry a spray can of deodorant as an improvised pepper spray, but that still doesn't stop people from carrying such items as long as you don't ADMIT that it is for SD when questioned.

    Can you quote in the legislation where 'tactical pens' are mentioned and named as a restricted carriage item?


      "At close quarters Cold Steel has a decisive edge"  Lynn Thompson
      "The difference between Citizen(free men) and Civilian(slave) is firearm ownership"  Wave man
      Cold Steel Knives I own.. 
    Trail Master san maiIII, Master Hunter san maiIII, SRK aus-8, OSI aus-8, LTC kukri, Bushman, 12" bowie machete, Outdoorsman lite,  Pendleton hunter VG-1, Pendleton lite hunter, Pendleton mini hunter, Kobun, Scimitar Spike, Double Agent1, Super Edge, Roach Belly, Canadian Belt knife, 3x Kudu, 2xPocket shark, Ti-Lite 4", Trench hawk, Trail hawk, 2 Handed Katana Machete, Smatchet, Thai Machete 


    wave man

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    Re:why no flippers? - Wednesday, May 10, 2017 9:47 PM ( #26 )
    I would also point out Victoria is far more draconian than we are in Queensland, and the rules do not transfer over from state to state.


      "At close quarters Cold Steel has a decisive edge"  Lynn Thompson
      "The difference between Citizen(free men) and Civilian(slave) is firearm ownership"  Wave man
      Cold Steel Knives I own.. 
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    StevieB

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    Re:why no flippers? - Thursday, May 11, 2017 1:24 AM ( #27 )
    wave man


    AFAIK a 'tactical pen' is allowed, my old man has recently carried a tactical pen onto a plane (in his top shirt pocket) without restriction, the security staff even asked him about it and he said 'it's a metal pen' and they were OK with it and allowed him to have it in his pocket in the cabin. There is no mention in the legislation (I know I've checked) about tactical pens (I can only talk about Qld, that's where I live) either about ownership or carriage, and I doubt the average copper would even know what a 'tactical pen' is. They are just a metal pen. I agree the naming of the 'tactical pen' is controversial for us Aussies, and if I am ever caught with a 'tactical pen' by a copper I will simply say it is a 'metal pen' (ensuring I don't call it a tactical pen) and I am pretty sure there won't be an issue.

    I understand what you are saying though, for example we can't carry a spray can of deodorant as an improvised pepper spray, but that still doesn't stop people from carrying such items as long as you don't ADMIT that it is for SD when questioned.

    Can you quote in the legislation where 'tactical pens' are mentioned and named as a restricted carriage item?





     They don't have to ben named. The items mentioned are merely examples - the wording of the act is extremely broad.





    Dangerous Articles

    Dangerous articles are any item which is:

    carried with the intention of being used as a weapon; or
    adapted or modified so as to be capable of being used as a weapon.
    Any item can be considered a dangerous article if it meets the above definition. This may include any everyday items including tools, household items or sports equipment.

    A person must not possess or carry dangerous articles in a public place without lawful excuse.




     The key words here are "ANY ITEM" and "carried with the intention of being used as a weapon". A tactical pen doesn't have to be expressly banned - it comes under "any item". And if a cop decides you are carrying it to use as a weapon you will be charged. Also bear in mind that if you ever hit someone with your "tactical pen" and the police become involved, you will have to explain why you were carrying it. Don't count on them being reasonable.


     Queensland may be less restrictive than Vic, but I would look very carefully at the wording of your states weapons laws if I were you. 

    Neuron

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    Re:why no flippers? - Thursday, May 11, 2017 10:49 AM ( #28 )
    If you take self defense classes then your hands and feet would considered weapons and if you use them to protect yourself or family/friends then you are in trouble, right? How can anyone take the right to defend yourself and those you love, etc away in good conscience. Jail might be better than death or disabled or watching your family be harmed, I think. This is the way the world is going though, luckily I will probably be dead before it completely goes to hell for self protection(yea I am old!).
    wave man

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    Re:why no flippers? - Thursday, May 11, 2017 4:43 PM ( #29 )
    Neuron


    If you take self defense classes then your hands and feet would considered weapons and if you use them to protect yourself or family/friends then you are in trouble, right? How can anyone take the right to defend yourself and those you love, etc away in good conscience. Jail might be better than death or disabled or watching your family be harmed, I think. This is the way the world is going though, luckily I will probably be dead before it completely goes to hell for self protection(yea I am old!).
     


    yes I am afraid that is the conundrum we live in here in Australia.


    StevieB+ I have been thinking about this more and while you are right for the most part when it applies to Victorian law, but has little to do with the other states. I have looked into the legislation for my state and it does not mention (or imply about) tactical pens, either in regards to carriage or ownership. Besides like you have pointed out it is all about intent and how you structure your answers to the coppers if you are in the unenviable position of being caught in a bad situation. 

    If caught and questioned by the coppers you know you don't have to answer any questions from the coppers other than your name, address and DOB, for anything else your answer should be 'with respect officer I don't have to answer that', this is even when in the cop station and you are being questioned formally. I had to undergo questioning once in the cop station and that is how I answered EVERY question for that interview, all without repercussions. Remember EVERYTHING you say will be used against you so the best policy is to ONLY say what is legally required (name, address and DOB) to and nothing else.


    What about this Parker pen, it has all the characteristics of a 'tactical pen' (metal construction, pointy, could easily used as a weapon)


    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Parker-Jotter-GT-Ball-point-Pen-Gold-Trim-New-Blue-Ink-Stainless-steel-barrel-/122347546039?hash=item1c7c7b65b7:g:hzEAAOSwOgdYnAPe


    Then there is the CS Pocket Shark, a plastic permanent marker (so not metal, and is rounded off with no 'pointy bits') clearly 'designed' to be a tactical pen which doesn't fit your criteria as a typical 'tactical pen.

    But this is all OT and is derailing the thread, we should get back to the OP, so do you have an opinion on why CS doesn't make a flipper?
    <message edited by wave man on Thursday, May 11, 2017 4:45 PM>


      "At close quarters Cold Steel has a decisive edge"  Lynn Thompson
      "The difference between Citizen(free men) and Civilian(slave) is firearm ownership"  Wave man
      Cold Steel Knives I own.. 
    Trail Master san maiIII, Master Hunter san maiIII, SRK aus-8, OSI aus-8, LTC kukri, Bushman, 12" bowie machete, Outdoorsman lite,  Pendleton hunter VG-1, Pendleton lite hunter, Pendleton mini hunter, Kobun, Scimitar Spike, Double Agent1, Super Edge, Roach Belly, Canadian Belt knife, 3x Kudu, 2xPocket shark, Ti-Lite 4", Trench hawk, Trail hawk, 2 Handed Katana Machete, Smatchet, Thai Machete 


    Magius

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    Re:why no flippers? - Thursday, May 11, 2017 10:24 PM ( #30 )
    I use that stainless steel Parker Jotter with a fine point every day I work. I've had one on the job everyday for over 20 years. Nice pen. Would make a fine spike if ever it was needed.
    The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.
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