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Adolfo

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Thursday, February 02, 2012 2:47 PM ( #31 )
My idea of camp comfort is having a water source less than a stone's throw distance, a well shaped rock for sitting and leaning against. A semi-flat spot for my 1 man tent. A good spot for pooppin', and a tree yo hang my food from. That's luxury.
 I apologize for consecutive posts but my mobile phone doesn't let me edit messages.    

mike65

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Friday, February 17, 2012 4:02 PM ( #32 )
The more gear you have the less you know what to do. I mean primitives but also today Bushman or tribes in Amazonas live with a 4 inch blade, a little hatchet and a little bag full of medical herbs and some smoked meat. THIS THE ABSOLUTELY MINIMUM!!!You can add  fancy gears like torch, water purifier, rope, space blanket, dried or canned food but the truth is that if you take many things with you mean you know nothing of what is around you 
Gary

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Friday, February 17, 2012 5:59 PM ( #33 )

Much of it depends on location.  The primitive skills differ depending on the climate and terrain.  If you took an Australian bushman and dropped him in the Canadian woods in winter he wouldn't last long.  And if you dropped an Alaskan Indian in the Australian outback he wouldn't last long either.  None of us have their primitive survival skills, we didn't grow up in their environment.  So we need some aids to survive.   With a lot of practice and careful preparation it's surprising just how little you can get along with.  But that leaves no margin for error or Mr. Murphey's  little jokes, as that poor schmuck  found out in Scotland recently.  I can try out most any equipment or procedures in relative safety on my 29 acres of unimproved woodland.  If I get too cold, hungry, or hurt I can just go back to the house.  I love being warm, having a full stomach, and dozing off in a warm sleeping bag while the wind is howling and snow is splatting against my tent or shelter.  It's one of the greatest feelings in the world.  Especially knowing just how miserable I would be without my pack of gear.  




mike65


The more gear you have the less you know what to do. I mean primitives but also today Bushman or tribes in Amazonas live with a 4 inch blade, a little hatchet and a little bag full of medical herbs and some smoked meat. THIS THE ABSOLUTELY MINIMUM!!!You can add  fancy gears like torch, water purifier, rope, space blanket, dried or canned food but the truth is that if you take many things with you mean you know nothing of what is around you 


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mike65

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:45 AM ( #34 )
That's exactly what I say gary: know where you are and know what can offer you. I mean you can store in the bag with you some aspirin but if you know the tree where it's made from you don't need and so on, you can have some water with you but if know where find pure water like a spring or a creek you don't need, MRE are disgusting but useful but if know hunting you can take only few with you. Always know where you are !
Gigmaster

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Saturday, September 01, 2012 2:11 AM ( #35 )
'Too much gear' is more than you can reasonably carry for 20 miles, or so. It varies according to the individual. I have no problem with 50+ pounds (but I am an inactive Marine).

One thing to consider: You can always not use something you have, but if you need something, and don't have it, or can't make it, you are SOL....

It's better to have something, and not need it, than to need something, and not have it.

Personally, as long as I have my Bushman, or my KABAR ( I still have my original issue KABAR, even though it was made by Ontario Knifeworks) and shoes, or boots...I'm good. I can improvise everything else.......

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Friday, September 21, 2012 9:26 PM ( #36 )
"One thing to consider: You can always not use something you have, but if you need something, and don't have it, or can't make it, you are SOL....

It's better to have something, and not need it, than to need something, and not have it."
 
Except for the SOL, this sounds just like what I was taught in Boy Scouts oh so many years ago. And thinking about that picture of the guys leg the bear gnawed on, I'm definitely gonna have something that goes bang with me and plenty of feed for it. Plus, I have to admit, I prefer chemically softened toilet paper to leaves, heh heh.



MM60

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:21 PM ( #37 )
"One thing to consider: You can always not use something you have, but if you need something, and don't have it, or can't make it, you are SOL.... 

It's better to have something, and not need it, than to need something, and not have it." 


I wouldn't say this is true all or even most of the time. I've been trying to camp as minimally as possible over the last couple of years, and I still end up wishing that I hadn't brought along certain items each trip because they were never used and only added weight to my pack. If you have food, a water container and purifier, a large fixed blade and a fire-starter - you're pretty much good to go. I'll take other items too, like a poncho and 550 cord so I don't have to build an entire shelter for a one-night stay, a sleeping bag and bivy in cold weather, extra clothes, a firearm, and I almost always bring a camera. When I started this thread, it was because the scout troop I work with can never manage to go on a campout without hauling an entire trailer of crap along, including a bin of firewood pre-cut by one of the parents, tents and dining canopies, camp kitchens, loads of food and who knows what else. The trips themselves amount to nothing more than pitching tents next to the vehicles and trying to get the scouts to get off their butts and do something productive. I tried to start a special patrol that would actually do exciting stuff, but out of five of us who were the patrol - eventually I was the only one showing up to meetings and I got tired of wasting an evening each week going over there just to be disappointed. Now I'm hoping to just enjoy the outdoors with my wife and friends - since we all actually enjoy being active and doing things in the real world rather than in video game fantasy land.

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Loki1

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:13 PM ( #38 )
My rule of thumb is. When I start needing a second pack mule I have to much stuff.
And the first person I see show up with a portable toilet (a seat is OK) gets left behind.  LOL
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
loki

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:16 PM ( #39 )
Since everyone is at different stages of health and fitness. My philosophy would be no more than than you can carry comfortably for at least 4 hours. You can cover a lot of distance in four hours and the rest of the time will give you shelter building, food prep, hygiene and ample rest for the next days walk. 
Avalzaunt

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Wednesday, January 23, 2013 8:23 AM ( #40 )
Yeah, I've been giving some thought to the idea of what I need versus what I want in a survival situation for sometime now. I've watched some of the Doomsday Prepper shows and while some of the things are neat others are totally unrealistic in a real life situation. We all can agree that basic clean water and sanitation are a must, as are self protection items like knives, guns, ect. Food we can forage, scrounge, carry, or have stashed. But what I'm realizing is, basically we're all going to be limited to what we can physically carry on our backs. The four wheel drive vehicle loaded with your stuff is just a good haul to whoever is manning the roadblocks you run across when you try to leave civilization. If you have a remote place prepared you still have to get to it in one piece. If you have a family to worry about you have to think about all that the various members will need like medications, diapers, ect. Maps showing the topographic details between you and your hideyhole are a nice addition in case you need to go crosscountry to get to your refuge. But there is one thing that doesn't take up space and doesn't add weight. That is knowledge. Knowing how to make a fire with primitive supplies, knowing how to make snares and fish traps, knowing how to treat injuries in the field. Basic survival skills are good but the more you know the better your chances are and the greater your comfort level will be. I'll vacate my soapbox now, heh heh.
Loki1

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Wednesday, January 23, 2013 10:24 AM ( #41 )
Something just crossed my mind on this subject. We all wonder just what we need and how to carry it.
My thought is why not look at the pro's. IE: The homeless.
Carrying it all? A shopping cart. Just think if you dress badly and have your good gear covered by a bunch of junk in a cart no one will take a second look at you. 
Also the homeless stay out just about all of the time, so look at what they use for the cold ETC:
Sure some of what they do most of us would never do but they are very good at survival.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
survivor2

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Saturday, March 23, 2013 7:52 PM ( #42 )
we all know its horses for courses,but just a thought
to combine the wise words on this topic written by knowledgable members here ,and trying to merge those of gary and mm60 -the following question came up to me to give me a direction on this crucial time old question--

what is the combined absolute most basic essential and minimum  survival  'things/tools' needed all over the world ,given the various habitat,weather, conditions,etc,etc.? [from desert to jungle to ice etc] to survive out there?

i think you will find that  if you make a list of 5 items for each situation they will overlap a lot, but this list then will give you a good idea of what is the final 5 minimum universal requirements to carry on you [eg. maybe some sort of cutting tool, maybe a fire device, some type of container, maybe cover[clothes,tarp etc?], some multi- use cordage etc, etc,]
 
this is an interesting excercise that i think a lot of us had thought about or even tried practically.
 
what are the 5 x universal basic  [all terrain] survival items out there? [,to answer this question of what is the basic/minimum items you should always carry with/on you off the beaten track.]
<message edited by survivor2 on Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:58 PM>
Gigmaster

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Saturday, March 23, 2013 10:28 PM ( #43 )
1. A Cold Steel knife, preferrably a Bushman.
2. Canteen
3. 100 yards 3/8" (9mm) Milspec Nyon rope and grappling hook. 
4. 100 yards 550 paracord
5. A.L.I.C.E. pack
Gary

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Sunday, March 24, 2013 5:21 PM ( #44 )

Number 1 to me is -always- a means to light a fire.  For warmth, for cooking, for sterilizing water, for signaling, for the phycological effect of having the fire if nothing else.  I've always believed that when you first realize that you are lost the -first- thing you should do is Stop, light a fire, have a cuppa, and start thinking about your situation.  Then while you're thinking the forest service will come and write you a ticket for the fire.   




Gigmaster


1. A Cold Steel knife, preferrably a Bushman.
2. Canteen
3. 100 yards 3/8" (9mm) Milspec Nyon rope and grappling hook. 
4. 100 yards 550 paracord
5. A.L.I.C.E. pack


Sturgeon's Law  "90% of everything is Crap" 
 
 Real heroes don't wear capes, they wear dog tags. 

 
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. -Benjamin Franklin 
 
Imhoff's Law:
 The organization of any bureaucracy is very much like a septic tank ... the really big chunks always rise to the top.
   
God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference 


In March of 1953 there were 53 kilobytes of random access memory on planet earth.  Thirty years later my first computer had 64K of RAM

I like my guns the way Obama likes his voters...Undocumented


azrael

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Sunday, March 24, 2013 6:07 PM ( #45 )
in my opinion, the minimalist list you could need, must cover the minimal need that you have 

you need to be warm, for that you need: 

-something to start a fire: lighter, match, or a magnesium rod 
-something to feed the fire: fire tender, 
-a tool to keep the fire fed: a machete, a hatchet, or a large sized knife 
- you need dry clothe in case the one you are wearing become wet
-you would need a blanket, poncho or sleeping bag. 

you need to be feed 

-with MRE, energy bar 
-or a way to collect food: traps for games, fishing equipment, or a bag to collect fruit or nuts or vegetable

you need to stay hydrated 
-a canteen 
-a filter : survival straw, filter that can be attached to the bottle, or included in the bottle, or a UV filter bottle 
 -some purification pills or liquids 


you maybe need to defend yourself 

-using the tools you already have to cut the food or the wood
-having a firearm either a long arms or a handgun 
-having a weapons oriented blunt or sharp weapon , such as sword, club, axe , spear etc......


that could be the minimum i could think 
"freedom is to be able to choose the way your life will go." 
I AM WARMONGER AS  WE ARE MANY 
 
"we stopped to look for monster under our bed the day we realized that they are inside of us" 

Gary

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Sunday, March 24, 2013 8:11 PM ( #46 )

Good logical progression there.  Starting with the fire and going on to all the things needed to start and maintain it.  Well said.




azrael


in my opinion, the minimalist list you could need, must cover the minimal need that you have 

you need to be warm, for that you need: 

-something to start a fire: lighter, match, or a magnesium rod 
-something to feed the fire: fire tender, 
-a tool to keep the fire fed: a machete, a hatchet, or a large sized knife 
- you need dry clothe in case the one you are wearing become wet
-you would need a blanket, poncho or sleeping bag. 

you need to be feed 

-with MRE, energy bar 
-or a way to collect food: traps for games, fishing equipment, or a bag to collect fruit or nuts or vegetable

you need to stay hydrated 
-a canteen 
-a filter : survival straw, filter that can be attached to the bottle, or included in the bottle, or a UV filter bottle 
-some purification pills or liquids 


you maybe need to defend yourself 

-using the tools you already have to cut the food or the wood
-having a firearm either a long arms or a handgun 
-having a weapons oriented blunt or sharp weapon , such as sword, club, axe , spear etc......


that could be the minimum i could think 


Sturgeon's Law  "90% of everything is Crap" 
 
 Real heroes don't wear capes, they wear dog tags. 

 
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. -Benjamin Franklin 
 
Imhoff's Law:
 The organization of any bureaucracy is very much like a septic tank ... the really big chunks always rise to the top.
   
God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference 


In March of 1953 there were 53 kilobytes of random access memory on planet earth.  Thirty years later my first computer had 64K of RAM

I like my guns the way Obama likes his voters...Undocumented


jhynesyahoo

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Thursday, October 17, 2013 1:10 PM ( #47 )
i wnt camping with my scouts in mountains last summer, other leaders brought gas heaters adn full tank of gas. wtf ? 
Gigmaster

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Thursday, July 10, 2014 5:20 AM ( #48 )
Just out of curiosity, I packed my ALICE pack with everything I usually take with me on an extended hiking adventure (usually at least a week), and weighed it. Pack, frame, and all weighed a little over 65 pounds. I probably carry another 7-10 pounds on my Utility belt and in my pockets. I can make 20 miles a day for a week, fairly comfortably with this. Actually, I usually only go an easy 10-15 miles daily, just because I am in no hurry. 

It's a little tough for the first 3 or 4 miles or so, then I get used to the weight and balance, and then it's almost like it's not even there
Gigmaster

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Friday, July 25, 2014 10:38 AM ( #49 )

You don't get out much, do you? I live in the Wilderness, in the N. Ga. Mountains. I do this stuff everyday. Part of that weight is the pack and frame itself, part is food and water. And 70 lbs. is less than what I toted in Vietnam, as a Radioman. The PRC-25 weighed around 25 pounds, plus over 50 lbs in the ALICE Pack, + what you had on your belt, + your weapon. I am pretty sure that I have considerably more knowledge and experience than you do about what is needed for extended trips into the Wilderness. It's a lot different than a weekend camping trip. 


You should probably think about what you are saying before you post it. It makes you sound like a Rambo-wannabe. And it's really not smart hinting that someone is lying when you know nothing about them, or what you are talking about. 


boney


70+ lbs? of WHAT? that's twice what anyone should need, and unless you're Force Recon fit, I don't believe you. Not on wooded hills.


Loki1

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Friday, July 25, 2014 3:12 PM ( #50 )
Pleases do not dig up old threads
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
Gigmaster

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Friday, July 25, 2014 11:53 PM ( #51 )

It's still open, isn't it?  Otherwise, how could you post on it? I'm confused. 


I was just responding to what I considered a slight on my honor, and I see that post has been removed. Thank you for that. Feel free to remove my response as well, as it makes no sense now, without the previous post. 


Just for my future reference, is there a time limit on when you can post on a thread, even if it is still open? I'll try to watch that in the future.


Loki1


Pleases do not dig up old threads


Gary

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Saturday, July 26, 2014 5:36 PM ( #52 )

One big thing to consider is not so much how far you can walk with a pack load but how far and fast you can run with it while some bad dudes are chasing you to steal your equipment and kill you.  Sometimes less -is- better.  Ideally you should have several hidden cashes for the heavy stuff.  




Gigmaster


You don't get out much, do you? I live in the Wilderness, in the N. Ga. Mountains. I do this stuff everyday. Part of that weight is the pack and frame itself, part is food and water. And 70 lbs. is less than what I toted in Vietnam, as a Radioman. The PRC-25 weighed around 25 pounds, plus over 50 lbs in the ALICE Pack, + what you had on your belt, + your weapon. I am pretty sure that I have considerably more knowledge and experience than you do about what is needed for extended trips into the Wilderness. It's a lot different than a weekend camping trip. 


You should probably think about what you are saying before you post it. It makes you sound like a Rambo-wannabe. And it's really not smart hinting that someone is lying when you know nothing about them, or what you are talking about. 


boney


70+ lbs? of WHAT? that's twice what anyone should need, and unless you're Force Recon fit, I don't believe you. Not on wooded hills.



Sturgeon's Law  "90% of everything is Crap" 
 
 Real heroes don't wear capes, they wear dog tags. 

 
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. -Benjamin Franklin 
 
Imhoff's Law:
 The organization of any bureaucracy is very much like a septic tank ... the really big chunks always rise to the top.
   
God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference 


In March of 1953 there were 53 kilobytes of random access memory on planet earth.  Thirty years later my first computer had 64K of RAM

I like my guns the way Obama likes his voters...Undocumented


Toxigenic

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:26 PM ( #53 )
Gigmaster, You're absolutely right in your feelings about your honor being slighted and people should get to know others instead of beaking off....which I believe is why those posts are gone...... The proper procedure according to the rules and guidlines is this.... * Do not dig up old threads. If you want to continue an old discussion (older than 1 month), create a new thread and reference the old one in your post.
The purest form of war is one on one


If you don't own one , commenting on it is irrelevant.
Gigmaster

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Sunday, July 27, 2014 6:07 AM ( #54 )

Thanks. I will keep that in mind. I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest. My apologies. 


Toxigenic


Gigmaster, You're absolutely right in your feelings about your honor being slighted and people should get to know others instead of beaking off....which I believe is why those posts are gone...... The proper procedure according to the rules and guidlines is this.... * Do not dig up old threads. If you want to continue an old discussion (older than 1 month), create a new thread and reference the old one in your post.


Gigmaster

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Sunday, July 27, 2014 6:09 AM ( #55 )

At my age...LOL. I can carry a ton, and walk forever, but running is not an option. I'd just have to stand and fight, or (better yet), hide real good........


Gary


One big thing to consider is not so much how far you can walk with a pack load but how far and fast you can run with it while some bad dudes are chasing you to steal your equipment and kill you.  Sometimes less -is- better.  Ideally you should have several hidden cashes for the heavy stuff.  




Gigmaster


You don't get out much, do you? I live in the Wilderness, in the N. Ga. Mountains. I do this stuff everyday. Part of that weight is the pack and frame itself, part is food and water. And 70 lbs. is less than what I toted in Vietnam, as a Radioman. The PRC-25 weighed around 25 pounds, plus over 50 lbs in the ALICE Pack, + what you had on your belt, + your weapon. I am pretty sure that I have considerably more knowledge and experience than you do about what is needed for extended trips into the Wilderness. It's a lot different than a weekend camping trip. 


You should probably think about what you are saying before you post it. It makes you sound like a Rambo-wannabe. And it's really not smart hinting that someone is lying when you know nothing about them, or what you are talking about. 


boney


70+ lbs? of WHAT? that's twice what anyone should need, and unless you're Force Recon fit, I don't believe you. Not on wooded hills.




Toxigenic

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Re:Camping: How much gear is too much? - Sunday, July 27, 2014 3:18 PM ( #56 )
You didn't stir anything that I saw... 
The posts were disrespectful to you and all of the members...
They knowledge one can get from the experience of our members is vast and good stuff to know.. 
I learn more by reading than commenting...
Lest we forget .
The purest form of war is one on one


If you don't own one , commenting on it is irrelevant.
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