What is the Best Sword for Home Defense?

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IsGo.

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What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Thursday, May 05, 2011 11:37 PM ( #1 )
Retrospectively contemplating, I should have purchased a Cold Steel dagger instead of the Hand and a Half Sword, since my only motivation was home self-defense.  Does anyone know if the daggers are razor sharp and what material they are made out of?  For example, are they high carbon steel, just like the swords?

I would like to keep a total of four weapons in my house: a dagger, a baseball bat, pepper spray, and a Glock 22 Third Generation.  I will then be able to protect myself not only from violent home invading criminals, but also from the two most dangerous and growing domestic politically motivated violent groups: Islamic terrorists and racial supremacists (Jared Lee Loughner owned lots of racial supremacist literature and mentioned on his website that Mein Kumpf was one of his favorite books).
<message edited by IsGo. on Thursday, May 05, 2011 11:38 PM>
RD

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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Thursday, May 05, 2011 11:48 PM ( #2 )
Here is the simple answer forget the sword (unless you live in a huge home and don't mind replacing lamps, furniture patching walls ect) keep a knife for back-up, loose the pepper spray, (trust me you don't want to use it indoors) stick with the Glock with a good light, and practice lots.
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 12:03 AM ( #3 )
Thanks for the tips.  For the knife you mentioned, the Cold Steel daggers are about 1 to 1.5 feet long, so that may be a good knife: not too long,  but not so short that you have to come very close to the attacker.  I just have to be sure the dagger is designed to be razor sharp so that I won't need much momentum inside of the house to make a meaningful cut.

I'll get the light for the Glock.  I was also thinking of getting the laser that goes inside of the gun slide.

The baseball bat may also then be too bulky for inside of the home protection.
merc with a mouth

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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 3:40 AM ( #4 )
The only swords I would even consider for home defense are swords with a 24 inch long blade or smaller. A CS wakizashi would work, or the cutlass. A dagger can be pretty good for home defense, but I would personally go for something a little longer. I prefer something with an edge vs something like the small sword. You could always half sword, but without proper training your gonna end up cutting your hand wide open.

You really don't want your swords RAZOR sharp, as when you cut through bone it really does a number on your edge. Plus most swords were sharpened below a 30 degree angle from what I know, to not only maximize the duration of the edge, but keep it durable enough for when you go through bone. Maybe this info from Cheness can explain it to you better then I can.

A sword can be "too sharp". What this means is that the cutting edge of a blade can be made too thin so that its relative durability is significantly reduced after frequent cutting. As you can imagine, the cutting edge of a sharpened blade from a primary (only) bevel has very little lateral support due to the small entry angle. For every type of steel, there is a minimum angle... beyond which, the steel will easily crumple (roll) from cutting (especially evident from harder targets). A katana that is "too sharp" will cut light targets easily, but roll its edge after only a few cuts.
To address this, the traditional Japanese swords generally has some body built into it's profile ("niku" or "meat" of the blade). This body is sometimes referred to as the "appleseed" or "clam" shape. This shape increases the durability of the blade, but slightly reduces the sharpness or cutting ability of the blade from the increased angle of entry.
Since our swords are mostly intended for use within a dojo setting, we do leave alittle "meat" on the blade. We only sharpen our swords to a degree sufficient for cutting of goza mats or tatami omote. What this means is that although it may feel less "sharp" than other swords available (especially during the "paper test" or on very light targets), it is more than sufficient for mat cutting exercises. The results of this is that the cutting edge of our blade will more durable after prolonged cutting of heavier targets over time than otherwise.

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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 3:52 AM ( #5 )
I would go for the Chisa Katana from Cold Steel. Just my opinion, you would be far enough away from a knife it would have a hard time getting close enough to cut you.
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 4:16 AM ( #6 )
Not sure about how much it would cost for them to mail to you, but to my house it is $34.00.  But I live in Hawaii, so it might be cheaper.
It was over in a moment and the folks had gathered round.  There before them lay the body of the outlaw on the ground.  Oh he might have went on living but he made one fatal slip When he tried to match the ranger with the big iron on his hip.  Big iron on his hip.



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Kiltninja

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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 6:52 AM ( #7 )
    Unless you're really uncomfortable with guns (like myself) then I would recommend a good shotgun for home self-defense. Just leave it near your bed with a round ready to be loaded into the chamber. If you really want a sword for home defense go with mercs idea, under 24 inches for the blade and make sure its a sword you both know how to use and can wield comfortably. I personally like the chinese warsword for home defense but its a heavy sword and not for everyone, the chisa katana is a good bit lighter and may be a better choice if you prefer Japanese swords. As far as daggers go some of the cold steel daggers are carbon steel like the G.I. tanto and the shanghai shadow. Most of them are either aus-8a or san-mai III models. though, and yes they come very sharp.
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 7:00 AM ( #8 )
well for inside the home, i'am thinking the sword may not be a good idea. Just dont know how much room you have to use one? maybe a cs Bowie would fit the bill though, inferno to keep them (outside) and like @Rd said dont use it inside. I'd just get good and comfortable with the Glock. JMO
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 7:35 AM ( #9 )
the best you can do is take your pistol. and practice, practice, practice. experience is your best weapon.

and forget sword. you can get a machete and modified it to be more agressive.it's a lot cheaper than a sword and you can practice it more easier.
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 8:26 AM ( #10 )
Interesting post Merc--thanks.

Thinking about getting my girl a Wakizashi in honor of her coming Doctrate.  Figure it will double as a defensive tool better than a Katana, because of the problems RD points out. 

I would say get a city stick or other cane instead of the bat.  Good for a dog in the yard or anytime you want to investigate something in the yard without running around with a big blade or club or gun.  I did so a few years ago, local cop came as well to investigate the same thing I was.  We stood on my lawn and talked about it and he never said a word about my cane.   Bet he would have if I were holding a gun or sword or bat.  (I would have still been legal--you can have most anything on your own property in Texas--but I prefer to not even cause comment)
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 12:45 PM ( #11 )
a barong would be good if they still made it but a chisa katana, 1917 cutlass,wakisashi. But as said before a backup knife would be more practical indoors but instead of the daggers tha do cut but are designed to stab,I'd go with a larado or natchez bowie which cut and slash and stab very well. I have a larado and a black bear classic always near in the house
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 1:25 PM ( #12 )
Two words: gladius machete.

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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 1:39 PM ( #13 )
If you are looking at a companion dagger in the neighborhood of 12" I would honestly recommend the Natchez bowie or Laredo instead.

Apart from that the Scottish Dirk is pretty bad ass.

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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 1:45 PM ( #14 )
Ditto to what dyln said on the cane if your old enough people will not even question it and if your a young guy like me you can just tell'em that you were injured in sports or snowboarding or something.
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 2:06 PM ( #15 )
If the space is permitting, I'd say the grosse messer. Its not elegant but it will clobber anything in its path (which means that all you really have to know is how to swing it) and it does have nice reach which is important for keeping distance.

Space is probably NOT permitting.

Therefore I'd go with the long sax machete. It has that clobber factor and it is an amazing stabber and slasher.

A gun really is best though. I'll admit it even though I don't own one.
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 4:00 PM ( #16 )
Going to get off track here a little bit, but has anyone ever heard of an actual home invasion robbery where firearms were not in use by the suspects? I'm not talking about the random burglary where the burglar screws up and someone is actually home, but a real home invasion, I know I never have, and I responded to around 75 or so. In my experience a sword or anything other than what the bad guy/s have already in hand is going to be pretty useless. 
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 4:45 PM ( #17 )
RD


Going to get off track here a little bit, but has anyone ever heard of an actual home invasion robbery where firearms were not in use by the suspects? I'm not talking about the random burglary where the burglar screws up and someone is actually home, but a real home invasion, I know I never have, and I responded to around 75 or so. In my experience a sword or anything other than what the bad guy/s have already in hand is going to be pretty useless. 


    You're not off track this is excellent advise. I imagine that some sword owners go this route because getting a good gun gets very expensive whereas the sword does not shoot money on practice time. I guess a sword is better then nothing at least.
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 6:51 PM ( #18 )


I would go with the Laredo Bowie.  I own a lot of knives and a few swords to compare against.  There's something about the feel of the bowie in the hand where it just gives the best of all worlds.  It's light and quick, but heavy enough for massive cuts.  Stabs like a dagger. Long enough to have effective stabs unlike many daggers.  Easy to conceal in the waist band when you leave your house.  Costs about $150.  And proof of the cutting power: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIqEzJvgdLs

BTW don't think hand guns are the ultimate solution.  People keep coming after getting hit by glocks.  If you don't hit them right in the chest or head it's not going to have much immediate effect on an enraged person.  Even if they die eventually.  Same is true of knife stabs, but if they close the distance against your knife they making it easier for you to stab them.


And the bowie is famous for it's original owner bringing a knife to a gun fight and winning.
<message edited by starfox on Friday, May 06, 2011 6:53 PM>
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 7:08 PM ( #19 )
Sword? Too long for fighting in a hallway or bedroom. I'd suggest a dirk, wak, or weapon of similar size, with a sharp edge more for slicing than hacking. Or a fire axe, the ones that have a spike on the back. They were meant for use in confined spaces and battering through wreckage, locked doors, etc. Which is probly what would be there if there was a terrorist strike, I assume. An explosion would fill your escape route with junk that needs to be hacked out of the way, possibly including terrorists.

Yup, get a short, sharp sword or long knife/dirk, and a fire axe with your Glock. No problems.
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Friday, May 06, 2011 11:30 PM ( #20 )
BBBB is totally correct here. But stabbing is going to be much more effective indoors. Nice idea with the bushman too. Just make sure its long enough to reach but not too long since it could get awkward.
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Saturday, May 07, 2011 3:06 AM ( #21 )
starfox
 

 People keep coming after getting hit by glocks.  If you don't hit them right in the chest or head it's not going to have much immediate effect on an enraged person.  


Caliber is supposed to be important on the Glock.  the .40 caliber has more momentum than the 9 mm and more penetration than the .45, which is why most police use it.  Plus, with the added laser and flashlight, I could quickly aim for the chest and fire one or more shots.  I would not do a head shot: I'm not trying to kill, just disable, plus I could miss a head shot.
 
Nice Bowie video: is it razor sharp?  Is it stainless steel or high carbon steel?
 
Thanks.
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Saturday, May 07, 2011 7:01 AM ( #22 )
RD


Going to get off track here a little bit, but has anyone ever heard of an actual home invasion robbery where firearms were not in use by the suspects? I'm not talking about the random burglary where the burglar screws up and someone is actually home, but a real home invasion, I know I never have, and I responded to around 75 or so. In my experience a sword or anything other than what the bad guy/s have already in hand is going to be pretty useless. 


guns in canada are still a little difficult to get well kinda. Anyway In my area (near Ottawa) I know of over 10 where knives, bats, tire irons ect were used. No guns and these were preplanned to rob extort ect. There is at least one incident somewhere in this forum about a college student supriseing an intruder and killing him with a decorative sword from his wall. So I wouldn't say an edged weapon is useless. If you hear them breaking in a preplaned defence stragity with ambush may save your live while waiting for 911 responders to arrive as part of the plan should include a call to 911 which is why my cell phone is always with me and my sd knife.
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Saturday, May 07, 2011 11:49 AM ( #23 )
I'm not saying it does not happen, I just have never seen it around here. No disrespect intended but I don't think you can accurately compare crimes in Canada where there are far fewer firearms in the hands of everyday criminals, to the U.S., where it is far more likely to find armed criminals. I'm not saying that a sharp pointy object would not be useful, I just prefer to match or be better armed than someone looking to do me harm is all.

Walking in and interrupting a burglary in your home is more of a real possibility than an actual home invasion, but most burglars are not armed unless they take your stuff to use in their attempt to escape, but that is not what the OP said he was fearful of, for whatever reason he feels that there is a possibility of someone breaking into his home to do him harm in some manner or another, and for that type of incident I would prefer to have a firearm plain and simple.

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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Saturday, May 07, 2011 12:09 PM ( #24 )
RD


for whatever reason he feels that there is a possibility of someone breaking into his home to do him harm in some manner or another, and for that type of incident I would prefer to have a firearm plain and simple.


Here in California, it is very common for criminals to break in during sunny afternoons, severely beat up the home inhabitants, and then steal their stuff.  They especially like to beat up senior citizens and women, even when they don't resist.  That is just how bad California has become.  It is for this reason that I am desiring to have legal defense weapons in my house.

And though home attacks by Islamic terrorists and racial supremacists don't occur as much as general types of crime, I still want to be prepared.
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Saturday, May 07, 2011 12:18 PM ( #25 )
bbbb


IsGo.

I could quickly aim for the chest and fire one or more shots.  I would not do a head shot: I'm not trying to kill, just disable, plus I could miss a head shot. 


Don't you think one or more shots to the chest would kill someone?
 


Not as surely as a head shot.  This is why people who commit suicide go for their heads, not their chests.
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Saturday, May 07, 2011 12:40 PM ( #26 )
What part of California are you in? If you are going to shoot someone 2 or 3 times in center mass and say you were only trying to disable them you are fooling yourself. If you employ deadly force that is exactly what it should be. You shoot to end a threat, not to disable a threat.

"This is why people who commit suicide go for their heads, not their chests."
 
Well that and it is a lot easier to hold a gun to your head than it is to hold it to your chest.
<message edited by RD on Saturday, May 07, 2011 12:43 PM>
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Saturday, May 07, 2011 1:15 PM ( #27 )
I would shoot once, and if he still came towards me, then I would shoot again.  I follow certain ethics: my thoughts are on incapacitating, not killing, though statistically, it could be true that any chest shot would most likely result in death.  I do not take pleasure in owning a gun, firing it, or harming or killing someone: it's a tragedy that such measures sometimes have to be taken.  All life is precious. 
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Saturday, May 07, 2011 1:58 PM ( #28 )
IsGo.


I would shoot once, and if he still came towards me, then I would shoot again.  I follow certain ethics: my thoughts are on incapacitating, not killing, though statistically, it could be true that any chest shot would most likely result in death.  I do not take pleasure in owning a gun, firing it, or harming or killing someone: it's a tragedy that such measures sometimes have to be taken.  All life is precious. 


Don't read this as in insult because it is not meant that way. If you are not 100% committed to using that Glock to kill someone, and think that you can just wound or incapacitate them with one shot you are fooling yourself. If you don't want to fire it even to practice so that you don't miss entirely (and no the laser is not a magic light that assures hits) get rid of it. You don't sound too terribly committed to owning and or using it to defend your life if need be, and that is perfectly fine. It takes in my view a great deal of commitment to own or use a handgun effectively. I can assure you this if someone enters your home intent on doing you harm they are probably going to be armed in some manner, you are going to be under a great deal of stress and will more than likely not know how many rounds you fire, or even if you hit your target the first time. There is no way that I have found to induce the type of stress you will encounter should you have to deal with this situation. I will only say that no matter what you decided to do, practice and practice a lot. OH and don't waste your money on that laser that replaces the guide rod on the Glock they are hard to turn on under stress, if you want the laser get either grip mounted or one that is built onto the light.
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Saturday, May 07, 2011 2:21 PM ( #29 )
RD


Don't read this as in insult because it is not meant that way. If you are not 100% committed to using that Glock to kill someone, and think that you can just wound or incapacitate them with one shot you are fooling yourself. If you don't want to fire it even to practice so that you don't miss entirely (and no the laser is not a magic light that assures hits) get rid of it. You don't sound too terribly committed to owning and or using it to defend your life if need be, and that is perfectly fine. It takes in my view a great deal of commitment to own or use a handgun effectively. I can assure you this if someone enters your home intent on doing you harm they are probably going to be armed in some manner, you are going to be under a great deal of stress and will more than likely not know how many rounds you fire, or even if you hit your target the first time. There is no way that I have found to induce the type of stress you will encounter should you have to deal with this situation. I will only say that no matter what you decided to do, practice and practice a lot. OH and don't waste your money on that laser that replaces the guide rod on the Glock they are hard to turn on under stress, if you want the laser get either grip mounted or one that is built onto the light.


I appreciate your advice.  I do intend to practice at the range.  And what I mean by incapacitation is that I am hoping that the chest shots will not kill him, but render him unconscious.  I'm trying to show that I don't have this "blood-lust" that anti-guns people accuse gun owners of, or that gun owners don't have any regard for human life and are completely insensitive.

Again, I DO intend to practice: I understand that guns are a very serious matter: one has to consider the danger bullets can pose to other people's body and property.   


<message edited by IsGo. on Saturday, May 07, 2011 2:38 PM>
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Re:What is the Best Sword for Home Defense? - Saturday, May 07, 2011 3:09 PM ( #30 )
I think I understand your mindset.  It is much like what Catholics were taught in WW2 regarding 'Suicide missions'  A catholic is forbidden to commit suicide, however they were told that so long as their INTENT were to survive--no matter how improbable that might be--they were morally OK.
Aiming for center mass and double tap is a good recommendation regardless.  Head shots are more difficult.  You may not however wish to tell the judge that you intended only to wound.  That may be interpreted by them that you did not feel in mortal danger.  That they died is then due to your carelessly and needlessly having shot them without regard for the consequences.   It is the same thinking as behind 'warning shots'.  If you fire a warning shot , you will not get credit for it.  Instead the other guy's lawyer will argue that you tried to murder him and missed.   Better you should say you tried to shoot him in fear of your life and just missed.  In other words your only justification for firing a gun around another human is "I had to stop him or he was going to kill me (or loved one)."
Cold calculation is not expected and may be seen as being 'cold blooded'.
"Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the face of an upraised knife.-Justice Oliver Wendel Holmes Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est."
Note--I am not a lawyer and do not play one on the forums.  Best advice I know is say "I want a lawyer" then shut your mouth.  When you get one, follow his advice.  He knows not only the law, but the Judges attitude towards things.

"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them."  Thomas Jefferson to George Washington. 1796 Psalms 144:1 Blessed be Jehovah my rock, Who teacheth my hands to war, And my fingers to fight:
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