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 Natchez Bowie It is broken.

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Zmegor

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Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 12:24 PM ( #1 )
The history is that. 
Knife have decided to split a log. Striking on a butt other log After several blows the handle on some parts has fallen off  Here photos 














Adolfo

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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 12:51 PM ( #2 )
Ouch! ...hate to see it.
 I apologize for consecutive posts but my mobile phone doesn't let me edit messages.    

muddog15

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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 1:42 PM ( #3 )
Thanks for posting this, if that is the way that knife is made then it should not be on the market.
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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 1:49 PM ( #4 )
I don't know any wood splitting techniques that require multiple handle blows.  Did you honestly expect it to survive?  I'm also curious why you decided to detach the wire from the pommel screw.  Thanks for the photos. 
dlyn454

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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:01 PM ( #5 )
Yeah nice photos of a naked Natchez.  Thanks for putting them up. 
Of course it broke.  They are made that way for a purpose.  If you want to do that sort of thing, then the Natchez or the Laredo is not for you.  Try it and they will break.
Love both my Natchez and my Laredo.  But not for that. 
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them."  Thomas Jefferson to George Washington. 1796 Psalms 144:1 Blessed be Jehovah my rock, Who teacheth my hands to war, And my fingers to fight:
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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 3:25 PM ( #6 )
As both the Natchez and the Laredo are both fighters and not made for this abuse it's not surprising that it failed.  I have never fully understood (even though I did do it myself once) the notion of beating a knife threw a piece of wood, that's what hawks and axe's are for.
Nice pictures of the inside of Natchez. Thanks for showing them.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 3:33 PM ( #7 )
Does CS make 1/4 tail tang or full tang that would survive pounding on the pommel? I doubt Warranty will cover that for sure that's in the owner abuse clause and I suspect being that it's fighting knife not an outdoor hatchet/axe it's Not a design flaw. An expensive lesson learned I hope. Thanks for the pictures , they're great. Notice the blade didn't break......The handle did.
<message edited by Toxigenic on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:45 PM>
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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:24 PM ( #8 )
Toxigenic


Does CS make 1/4 tail tang or full tang that would survive pounding on the pommel?



I started to suggest in my earlier post.  The Perfect Balance.  
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them."  Thomas Jefferson to George Washington. 1796 Psalms 144:1 Blessed be Jehovah my rock, Who teacheth my hands to war, And my fingers to fight:
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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:34 PM ( #9 )
hey what do you expect?  cold steel advertises the BLADE as virtually indestructible!!!
And some wonder why for the past couple of years I have questioned SOME of cold steel's quality control!!
For a blade that large the tang should be full, any good fixed blade should.
That tang is WAY too small especially for that large a blade.
Was it abused?  yes should the tang be larger and stronger? yes
wake up cold steel this is garbage!!!!!!
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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:48 PM ( #10 )
Sorry to hear you broke your knife , but it is hard to blame CS for this particular design , it is meant as a fighter and it excels at that ( according to those who use it for that purpose )  the cable tang is a complicated system and actually more expensive to manufacture than a full , solid tang , but it was put there for a special purpose and cutting wood is not it .

Don't get me wrong , I LOVE splitting wood with my knives , but I only use the ones designed for that kind of abuse ( would never try that with my Spartan ) and even then I can't blame the knife if the blade gets a nick while going trough a hard knot , I know I am going far beyond of what the blade was intended for , now you can use this chance to try your hand at re-handling it OR you could sell it to me and I would love to take on that project !!
So much steel , so little gold !!!

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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:59 PM ( #11 )
This is one of the reasons I don't own a Natchez.  Complicated handles don't matter to me.  What matters is give me a fighter style knife that I can trust on the battlefield under all the rigors of combat.  No where did I ever see a disclaimer saying that the Natchez is a gentlemen's knife and should be treated accordingly. 
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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 6:06 PM ( #12 )
barbqcatfishtaco said hey what do you expect? cold steel advertises the BLADE as virtually indestructible!!! And some wonder why for the past couple of years I have questioned SOME of cold steel's quality control!! For a blade that large the tang should be full, any good fixed blade should. That tang is WAY too small especially for that large a blade. Was it abused? yes should the tang be larger and stronger? yes wake up cold steel this is garbage!!!!!! Cable tang vs full tang again. Once again, I'm on the side of the FULL tang.
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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 7:22 PM ( #13 )
Adolfo


Ouch! ...hate to see it.

 
Ditto! 
 
 

 
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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 7:24 PM ( #14 )
You pounded on the pommel? For multiple reasons, I would not even pound my Trail Master through wood via the pommel. I'm not going to bother to explain the physics of it, but the handle breaking may have saved you from a serious injury.

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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 7:51 PM ( #15 )
While I have a Natchez I would -never- treat it that way.  My Trailmasters could probably take it but I have machetes and tomahawks for that sort of work.  The Natchez is strictly a fighter and is made for that and nothing else.  Would you use a Master Tanto for chipping paint?  You could have bought 10 machetes or hawks for the price of the Natchez and they would have been much better suited for the use you made of your expensive, now broken, tool.  It can be fixed by making a new handle, maybe of stag or even Ivory but it will never take that abuse unless you make it out of steel.  Good luck with it.  
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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:52 PM ( #16 )
Lol , gross abuse of a knife..
I have the laredo , natchez , and trailmaster.
I can honestly say i would not use one of them in way you described.

Would the trailmaster take it?
Probably.

Im not gonna go out of my way to find out though.

Cool pictures , next time you wanna get rid of an sk5 blade shoot me a pm instead.
 

Interested in getting your knives sharpened?
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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:26 AM ( #17 )
Loki1

I have never fully understood,beating a knife threw a piece of wood, that's what hawks and axe's are for


If I had a Natchez (The ONLY Bowie CS makes that I like)I would never abuse it would be the flagship of my collection and id keep it pristine,Loki is dead on with what he said,Although Im wondering if this is a blessing in disguise as perhaps now you can get rid of all that ghastly brass and find similar parts to make it look nice like the good Natchez
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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:59 AM ( #18 )
Dittos to the guys who suggest Hawks.  Really everyone, if wood processing is your thing....Get a Hawk.  It will do the job better than ANY knife.  Get a couple spare handles.  Its still way cheaper than a knife.   The Mountain Men and Indians carried Hawks in addition to their knives for just this reason.  customize 'em, hammer with 'em, throw 'em.  If you bust a handle its 5 minutes to put in a new one.  Or make your own.  If somehow you do bust a hawk head its still no tears.
And your knife is still razor sharp and ready for Zombies.  Or fighting Injuns.  (Or if you are an Indian for fighting White Eyes)  Whatever.  Hawks are cool --all American--and fierce weapons.
<message edited by dlyn454 on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 7:10 AM>
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them."  Thomas Jefferson to George Washington. 1796 Psalms 144:1 Blessed be Jehovah my rock, Who teacheth my hands to war, And my fingers to fight:
spareparts

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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:21 AM ( #19 )
Sadden
 

Would the trailmaster take it?
Probably.


Gary
 

My Trailmasters could probably take it but I have machetes and tomahawks for that sort of work.   


No offense guys, but the TM and most CS knives have a stick tang.  No pommel pounding for me.  I wouldn't do anything they weren't designed for...and that's simply cutting and light chopping IMO.
 
Below are a couple of pics to give you an idea how much steel is under that kraton.  Personally, I was a bit dissapointed when I removed my first kraton handle but I'll leave my personal feelings at that.  The second pic was taken after I had alredy modded that particular knife a bit (just in case you don't see the CS in it).
 

 

<message edited by spareparts on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:24 AM>
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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 9:52 AM ( #20 )
I don't see how "full tang" would have turned out a different result, other than busted pieces of a different knife design.  They will splinter and buzz right off the pins of a visible tang.  The handle is for handling, not hammering. 
Mtn Tow

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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:49 AM ( #21 )
Knife abuse, yes. 

Very odd design that I wouldn't want, definitely. 
  

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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:55 AM ( #22 )
Narrow tangs work just fine as long as they're properly designed and the user is aware of the limits of the tool. No reason to be disappointed with the knife--be disappointed with your selection of tool for your intended tasks.  That being said, I can baton with a $4.00 Wal*Mart chef's knife and not break it. The reason is not because the knife is superior, but my technique is.


In fact, I even disagree with the folks suggesting 'hawks for wood processing. Tomahawks are weapons first and tools second, and their bits reflect that. They CAN split, but do it poorly compared to a camp hatchet or, better yet, an axe.


<message edited by FortyTwoBlades on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:58 AM>

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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:18 PM ( #23 )
FortyTwoBlades












"Furor fit læsa sæpius patientia." 
"Fail to plan? Plan to fail."

"This is my rifle, this is my sword. One is for killing and one is for war."


The only thing Cold Steel could improve ... is this forum software! 
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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:45 PM ( #24 )
FortyTwoBlades


Narrow tangs work just fine as long as they're properly designed and the user is aware of the limits of the tool. No reason to be disappointed with the knife--be disappointed with your selection of tool for your intended tasks. 


I can't fully fault the OP.  When you browse CS and see
 


Q: Do all Cold Steel knives have a full tang?
 
Full tang construction is an important consideration when evaluating the strength of a knife. Originally, "full tang" meant a handle in which the edges of the tang are visible all around the outside of the hilt, so that the tang is fully as wide as the knife handle. However, with the advent of "driven-on" Kray-Ex™ handles, full tang has come to mean that a very substantial tang extends completely through the center of the handle right to the back of the pommel. This describes the tangs on all premium Cold Steel knives.

 
Maybe the faq sheet should be updated to let people know that a certain few knives don't have "substantial tang" and fit in to a specialty category of only for use on _____________ That way the customer can purchase the right tool for the job at hand. 
 
I sympathize with the OP.  I expect more when a company claims "Worlds Strongest, Sharpest Knives."  Aparently the Natchez isn't one of the world strongest, might actually be in the mediocre category.  I could name a couple of competitor knives (made in USA and still competitively priced BTW) that would most likely have survived the OP's challenge with no noticeable harm.
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spareparts

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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:48 PM ( #25 )
http://www.coldsteel.com/natchez-bowie-in-sk-5.html


"Under-The Hill" was the notoriously rowdy riverfront district of Natchez, Mississippi at the beginning of the nineteenth century. So disreputable, it was seldom mentioned in the polite drawing rooms of the antebellum mansions that dotted the other side of town during the era when cotton was king.
Our Natchez Bowie was born "Under-The-Hill" and takes its pedigree from those seedy taverns and dimly lit streets. Line-bred for battle, it's the definitive fighting Bowie. Its long blade is perfectly shaped for strength, reach and leverage, and its significant heft is flawlessly balanced, giving it unparalleled liveliness and velocity. Combine all that with its wickedly razor sharp edge and you have a knife that pierces like a dagger, cuts like a razor and chops like a cleaver!



Chops like a cleaver...but we highly recommend you only take it out once a year for a polishing, slice a piece of paper, and put it back in the safe.  Whatever you do please don't chop like a cleaver, the handle might break.  Good day, and thanks for the $300.
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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 1:08 PM ( #26 )
Geeze... don't smash walnuts with the TM pommel and expect it to be impressed either.
dlyn454

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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 2:46 PM ( #27 )
FortyTwoBlades


Narrow tangs work just fine as long as they're properly designed and the user is aware of the limits of the tool. No reason to be disappointed with the knife--be disappointed with your selection of tool for your intended tasks. [

In fact, I even disagree with the folks suggesting 'hawks for wood processing. Tomahawks are weapons first and tools second, and their bits reflect that. They CAN split, but do it poorly compared to a camp hatchet or, better yet, an axe.




True.  I started to suggest that the axe would be even better.  but I figured the guys who do this with a knife are trying to get by with minimal equipment.  Or they just like weapons.   When it comes to processing wood, the best knife is a poor substitute for a hawk and a hawk is a poor substitute for an axe.  The bigger the job, the bigger the axe should be. 
 And yes a good hatchet is better than a hawk for wood.   I would say mainly for the handle shape--because the bit shape can vary a lot for hawks and hatchets.  Even though I love Hawks, I keep an Eastwing hatchet handy.
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hermit dave

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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 2:57 PM ( #28 )
 This is clearly a handle failure. The tang/ pommel is intact (until the cable was cut).
I'm not clear on exactly was done to this knife. It sounds like it was hammered into
a piece of wood like a nail. If this is the case.........of course it broke!!
 That said, I think the micarta handled version would have not failed.
 My .02
<message edited by hermit dave on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:02 PM>

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sonoranscott

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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:45 PM ( #29 )
spareparts

Chops like a cleaver...but we highly recommend you only take it out once a year for a polishing, slice a piece of paper, and put it back in the safe.  Whatever you do please don't chop like a cleaver, the handle might break.  Good day, and thanks for the $300.

 
In the Natchez's defense, it probably does chop like a cleaver when used on its intended target, the human body, in which there's nothing even close to as difficult to cleave as a thick piece of wood or tree branch/log.  In the Proof vids they show the knife being used to cleave a deck of cards on a wooden table. That's probably about as much impact as you'd want to submit this knife to, and not on a regular basis at that.  SInce it's a big knife, people naturally think of chopping stuff, but it's more like a short sword in intent.  Both are designed soley as anti-personnel devices and neither is suited to heavy chopping of hard substances like wood.  However, like a sword, the vast majority of people will never use it for its true purpose and will try to find other stuff to hack up as a result (these larger blades DO beg to be used, lol), leading to the early demise of the tool. 
 

 
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Re:Natchez Bowie It is broken. - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 4:16 PM ( #30 )
Aren't they both micarta?
 
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