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 Arkansas Toothpick

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Magius

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Arkansas Toothpick - Monday, July 26, 2010 1:35 AM ( #1 )
I'd like to see a Cold Steel Arkansas Toothpick, preferably in San Mai III. I like the Tai Pan, but I'd prefer a more westernized handle.
Has Cold Steel ever made one?
wave man

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Monday, July 26, 2010 1:46 AM ( #2 )
Technically both the Natchez and the Laredo bowies are very similar to the Arkansas Toothpick , so I don't think that cs will do another bowie variant (especially if you take the trail master into account as well).


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grindermcgee

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Monday, July 26, 2010 2:22 AM ( #3 )
There are easily ten fixed blade knives CS makes I would call a toothpicker knife. If I had to pick one the OSS is closest.

Can you be more specific?
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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Monday, July 26, 2010 4:56 AM ( #4 )
Perhaps something along the lines of this?
 
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g_core18

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Monday, July 26, 2010 9:28 AM ( #5 )
Rehandle the tai pan?
wave man

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Monday, July 26, 2010 2:37 PM ( #6 )
My above statements were somewhat wrong, I got confused as to the style of blade you wanted, when I hear Arkansas toothpick I always think of my old mans Al Mar Arkansas toothpicks( he has 2) and they look like a long clip point bowie. When I googled this style it stated that the toothpick and the bowie were often described as interchangeable. I then found a historical description and now see your concept, basically a huge dagger that was often worn in a harness on the back and used as a thrown weapon. That type of toothpick would be cool, but no go in Australia (several reasons, dagger, thrown weapon, mate our customs would hate this type of blade)


  "At close quarters Cold Steel has a decisive edge"  Lynn Thompson
  "The differance between Citizen(free men) and Civilian(slave) is firearm ownership"  Wave man
  Cold Steel Knives I own.. 
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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Monday, July 26, 2010 3:38 PM ( #7 )
Just what the hell are you allowed to have In Australia Waveman,I mean are their no bad areas where one need be armed...... By the way the spell checker tried to change you to "Caveman" just now
ausdigr

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Monday, July 26, 2010 4:31 PM ( #8 )
SirrJames


Just what the hell are you allowed to have In Australia Waveman,



Not too much at all anymore.
sometimes things just are not what they seem.
wave man

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Monday, July 26, 2010 5:01 PM ( #9 )
SirrJames

Just what the hell are you allowed to have In Australia Wave man,I mean are their no bad areas where one need be armed......

http://coldsteelforums.com/Knife-Laws-m3045.aspx post #30 SirrJames if you are interested in just how repressive this bloody country has become read the import restricted list, posted here in the above link.
And yes mate there are many areas that one should be armed for self defense.( The Valley, in Brisbane for example), overall Australia is reasonably crime free, that was until the government started its prohibition policies on guns and knives, and actively started to promote a citizens anti-self defense agenda.
 
I just had the same thing with the spell checker, wanting to put Caveman instead of Waveman, but if you put the space in between wave and man it works fine.


  "At close quarters Cold Steel has a decisive edge"  Lynn Thompson
  "The differance between Citizen(free men) and Civilian(slave) is firearm ownership"  Wave man
  Cold Steel Knives I own.. 
Trail Master san maiIII, Master Hunter san maiIII, LTC kukri, Bushman, 12" bowie machete, Outdoorsman lite, Pendleton lite hunter, Kobun, Scimitar Spike, Double Agent1, Super Edge, 3x Kudu, 2xPocket shark, Trench hawk, Trail hawk, 2 Handed Katana Machete, Smatchet


Magius

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Monday, July 26, 2010 5:47 PM ( #10 )
The Arkansas Toothpick is a 12" long, double edged, spear pointed knife. It is reputed to have been designed by James Black, who supposedly designed the Bowie.

The Tai Pan is the only thing in Cold Stee's catalog that comes close, but rehandling the Tai Pan won't make it an Arkansas Toothpick. The blade would have to be longer, and point more proglonged. 
 
 


jlauffer


Perhaps something along the lines of this?
 

Yes, like that. Was that made by Cold Steel at some point?
The one above looks good with the micarta handle, but it's a cheap $12 BudK knife. I'd like a "real" one in San Mai III.
 
Edit: I see the one you showed is an Atlanta Cutlery knife in high carbon steel. It goes for about $75.


<message edited by Magius on Monday, July 26, 2010 6:15 PM>
fudo

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Monday, July 26, 2010 8:10 PM ( #11 )
Magius


The Arkansas Toothpick is a 12" long, double edged, spear pointed knife. It is reputed to have been designed by James Black, who supposedly designed the Bowie.

 
 
 


That is exactly what I see when I think of an Arkansas Toothpick.

<message edited by fudo on Monday, July 26, 2010 8:14 PM>
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wave man

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Monday, July 26, 2010 8:41 PM ( #12 )
I have to say after reading FSS's post about Victorian law I am so thankful that Queensland hasn't gone this INSANE, its fairly restricted but nothing like this. No wonder the southerners are relocating "up north" in droves.


  "At close quarters Cold Steel has a decisive edge"  Lynn Thompson
  "The differance between Citizen(free men) and Civilian(slave) is firearm ownership"  Wave man
  Cold Steel Knives I own.. 
Trail Master san maiIII, Master Hunter san maiIII, LTC kukri, Bushman, 12" bowie machete, Outdoorsman lite, Pendleton lite hunter, Kobun, Scimitar Spike, Double Agent1, Super Edge, 3x Kudu, 2xPocket shark, Trench hawk, Trail hawk, 2 Handed Katana Machete, Smatchet


Gunnyman88

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Monday, July 26, 2010 8:55 PM ( #13 )
jlauffer


Perhaps something along the lines of this?
 


I have that knife! Very nice. It is made by Windlass Steelcrafts. (see picture below)


Arkansas Toothpick


It would be great if Cold Steel could make one in San Mai III !






 
<message edited by Gunnyman88 on Monday, July 26, 2010 8:58 PM>
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ToolMan

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Monday, July 26, 2010 9:31 PM ( #14 )
Randall makes some fabulous Toothpicks, but they start at $1000 and you have to wait three years.

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Magius

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Monday, July 26, 2010 11:09 PM ( #15 )
Gunnyman88

I have that knife! Very nice. It is made by Windlass Steelcrafts. 

It would be great if Cold Steel could make one in San Mai III !



Cool, Gunny! How's the overall quality, and fit and finsh etc on that knife? Do you have any info on the steel other than "high carbon?"
  
 
ToolMan


Randall makes some fabulous Toothpicks, but they start at $1000 and you have to wait three years.


Thanks. I didn't think to look at randall. Actually, this one is listed at $610.00, but that's still a bit much. Cold Steel could price one on par with the Natchez.

<message edited by Magius on Monday, July 26, 2010 11:11 PM>
grindermcgee

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Tuesday, July 27, 2010 2:26 AM ( #16 )
$610? ...If you don't mind waiting 5 years.
 
The larger model Randalls go for much closer to the $1K mark.
<message edited by grindermcgee on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 2:27 AM>
Magius

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Tuesday, July 27, 2010 2:36 AM ( #17 )
grindermcgee


$610? ...If you don't mind waiting 5 years.
 
The larger model Randalls go for much closer to the $1K mark.


$610 is the highest price on any of his Bowies or Arkansas Toothpicks.
grindermcgee

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Tuesday, July 27, 2010 3:38 AM ( #18 )
Bo Randall has not made knives for some decades now and his son, Gary took over the business after his death in 1989. The shop has less than 30 employees and an attached museum where the knives are NOT for sale.

The wait is five years for a standard catalog knife. One can add up to 5 optional mods for extra cost. If you want to have one today the markup will be considerable I promise, especially an older model. Love the toothpick model though.

What about a H&H dag?
<message edited by grindermcgee on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 3:39 AM>
jlauffer

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:10 AM ( #19 )
Love the idea of CS doing one, but with such a thin and narrow point, and being double-edged, would there be any issues using laminated steel for a blade like this?
<message edited by jlauffer on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:37 AM>
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dannycanuck

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Tuesday, July 27, 2010 8:22 AM ( #20 )
I like this better than the Tai Pan but it looks pretty much like the italian dagger or hand and a half dagger just with a bit of a different handle. That being said, I like this much better than the tai pan and I would consider buying it if it was the same materials as the laredo bowie; it would be a nice companion.
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Magius

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:28 AM ( #21 )
grindermcgee


Bo Randall has not made knives for some decades now and his son, Gary took over the business after his death in 1989. The shop has less than 30 employees and an attached museum where the knives are NOT for sale.

The wait is five years for a standard catalog knife. One can add up to 5 optional mods for extra cost. If you want to have one today the markup will be considerable I promise, especially an older model. Love the toothpick model though.

So, in other words... out of reach. Gotcha. It was a bit too much at $610 anyway.
 
grindermcgee

What about a H&H dag?

Yeah, that's close, but it's carbon. Nice looking though.
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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:33 AM ( #22 )
 Thanks Gunnyman,I have on MANY occasions seen knives I want made by Windless Steelcrafts but never heard anything of their quality.I was always under the impression they mostly do production pieces for movies and things like that so I figured they probably didn't actually put much thought into quality,Its good to hear an opinion,I have have more than one catalog with them in it and more than one Windless Steelcraft knife id like to see up close,    
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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:40 AM ( #23 )
dannycanuck


I like this better than the Tai Pan but it looks pretty much like the italian dagger or hand and a half dagger just with a bit of a different handle. That being said, I like this much better than the tai pan and I would consider buying it if it was the same materials as the laredo bowie; it would be a nice companion.


Arkansas Toothpicks have dropped off the radar, but in the 70's they were sold along with Bowies as sets. It's said that James Black designed them both at about the same time. However, Jim Bowie's famous fight in Texas gained that knife more notoriety.
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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Tuesday, July 27, 2010 8:25 PM ( #24 )
Magius


Gunnyman88

I have that knife! Very nice. It is made by Windlass Steelcrafts. 

It would be great if Cold Steel could make one in San Mai III !



Cool, Gunny! How's the overall quality, and fit and finsh etc on that knife? Do you have any info on the steel other than "high carbon?"
  
 

Magius,

Having been very satisfied with recent purchases of Windlass Steelcrafts items, I took a chance on their inexpensive Arkansas Toothpick, and found it to be surprisingly well done.
 
* The WS Arkansas Toothpick Blade is hand-forged and tempered.  It is made of 1085 high carbon steel.

I do not know much about 1085 high carbon steel and after doing a google search was unable to find any information.

I purchased the knife without an edge and after taking it to a local knife sharpener, it is now scary sharp.

source:
*AtlantaCutlery.com
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Magius

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:50 PM ( #25 )
Gunnyman88


Magius


Gunnyman88

I have that knife! Very nice. It is made by Windlass Steelcrafts. 

It would be great if Cold Steel could make one in San Mai III !



Cool, Gunny! How's the overall quality, and fit and finsh etc on that knife? Do you have any info on the steel other than "high carbon?"
 


Magius,

Having been very satisfied with recent purchases of Windlass Steelcrafts items, I took a chance on their inexpensive Arkansas Toothpick, and found it to be surprisingly well done.

* The WS Arkansas Toothpick Blade is hand-forged and tempered.  It is made of 1085 high carbon steel.

I do not know much about 1085 high carbon steel and after doing a google search was unable to find any information.

I purchased the knife without an edge and after taking it to a local knife sharpener, it is now scary sharp.

source:
*AtlantaCutlery.com



Thanks, Gunnyman.
<message edited by Magius on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:52 PM>
grindermcgee

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Wednesday, July 28, 2010 4:53 AM ( #26 )
Magius


So, in other words... out of reach. Gotcha. It was a bit too much at $610 anyway. 
 


Not out of reach, just a lot of cabbage. Exceptional knife.
 
 
Check out the Windlass Arkansas Toothpick from this angle.
 

 
 I believe the technical name for that setup is called wall hanger.
 
grindermcgee

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Wednesday, July 28, 2010 5:13 AM ( #27 )
Ok, let's be fair. This English design keeps it all hangin' out with handle slabs and no tang suprises. This might be nice to handle for Closeout $70.

 
  
Edit:
 
Here's an old classic toothpicker with lots of battle action.
 

 
The CS Tai Pan, Peace Keeper and OSS are higher quality blades than either of these IMNSHO.
 
<message edited by grindermcgee on Wednesday, July 28, 2010 5:34 AM>
Magius

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Wednesday, July 28, 2010 5:54 PM ( #28 )
grindermcgee
 
 
The CS Tai Pan, Peace Keeper and OSS are higher quality blades than either of these IMNSHO.
 
 

Yes, as one would expect them to be, but none of them are Arkansas Toothpicks. Except for the Randall, there are no quaity Arkansas Toothpicks in production that I can find.
The Windlass looks decent, but that tang looking thingy is... disappointing. Plus, like the H&H which is close, it's carbon.
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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Thursday, July 29, 2010 5:30 AM ( #29 )
So this knife is not an Arkansas toothpick either?



The terms are flexible to me, not specific patterns. To some, any folding knife is a Buck, any soft drink a Coke, any fixed knife is a bowie or toothpicker.

But, if Jimmy Lile says an AK TP is an oversized dagger, then it must be so.



Here is an interesting factoid that turned up in a brief search.

The Arkansas Toothpick
James Black is often credited with the invention of the Arkansas Toothpick, although this connection is somewhat weaker and is possibly due to confusion between the Arkansas Toothpick and the Bowie Knife. Arkansas Toothpicks and Bowie Knives manufactured in England were both sold as Bowie Knives. Still, Black was renowned for making throwing knives and if he did not invent the Arkansas Toothpick, he certainly contributed to its development and doubtless manufactured hundreds of them.
The Arkansas Toothpick is essentially a long, heavy, balanced dagger, slung in a holster across the back, drawn over the shoulder and flung optimistically at a distant enemy. When I say long, I mean a blade of fifteen to twenty-three inches. The Bowie Knife was also enormous. It was said that a Bowie had to be sharp enough to use as a razor, heavy enough to use as a hatchet, long enough to use as a sword and broad enough to use as a paddle.

Check out more knife history here.

Magius

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Re:Arkansas Toothpick - Thursday, July 29, 2010 11:20 AM ( #30 )
Semantics are everything, I guess. To me a Coke is a Coke, and a Sprite is not a Coke.
The top picture is not an Arkansas Toothpick. The bottom picture is, and a nice looking one at that. I'd like to know the specifics on the second one.

As your exerpt states, there seems to be some confusion between that knife and the Bowie. Which would explain why a narrow clip point would be called an Arkansas Toothpick, especially by a European dealer.
 
Also, I don't consider every Bowie styled knife with clip point to be a Bowie knife. The description in the excerpt is how I think of a true Bowie. A KA-BAR USMC is not what comes to mind when I think Bowie. A Natchezs and Laredos are Bowies, while an Air Force Survival knife isn't.

The same is true of Arkansas Toothpicks. The Sykes is an awsome knife with a toothpick style blade, but not what I think of when I hear Arkansas Toothpick.

Here's a Jimmy Lile commemorative set:


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